Revisiting The Waco Massacre...

I agree. Koresh isn't law enforcement, however. They have to be held accountable to a higher standard. When you have grown men dropping trow in front of children for the purpose of psychological warfare it sounds a bit pedobear...the fact that they were doing this in the line of duty, well...

 

If you want to read a very detailed book about Ruby Ridge in which the author remains neutral, read "Every Knee Shall Bow" by Jess Walter.

 

Jon Ronson's book, "Them" is actually a very fun read on extremists. He was highly sympathetic to the Weaver family, however.

 

Absolutely hold them responsible. Koresh killed children in his complex however so these don't compare. I have an issue with those who think the Davidians were guiltless or pure victims in this whole affair. They were evil and I'm not sorry to see them dead.

I do feel for the innocent children however who were killed by the parents.

 

Their children were killed from cyanide poisoning from high temperatures of the fire and the CS gas pumped in by the FBI.

 

The cause of death of the children was the fire set by the Davidians. The CS gas, while cruel, was not the cause of death.

 

First part in bold. Note the similarity between that, and, for example, the use of such methods (now used as standard), by US agents and their affiliates, on 'terror operatives'. Such emotive terms, you see. 'Cult leader'[/B]....'terror operative'....anyway, while once the US fought for due process for all, this is beng chipped away at. Due to what is effectively America's 'enabling act', any citizen in America will be able to be literally taken off the streets, denied any due process, and locked up in location unknown, length of time unknown. And if anyone does not think this legilsation WILL be misused and abused, then please, read up on the German enabling act, which effectively usurped the German constitution, and permitted such detensions from anyone deemed an enemy of the state, domestic or otherwise.

You know the line has been crossed when people are afraid of their Gov imo, and Americans, probably not for the reasons they may think, they have every right to be afraid of what their Gov is, what and who it really represents, and the fact that no matter who they vote for, that person will still represent the same people, those people not being the general public.

Even the burning of evidence in this manner, can be seen by the Gov's agents in Iraq.

Thank god for whistleblowers that tell us of cases like the several Iraqi children aged 5 and under, plus elderly lady, who were handcuffed and shot, before an airstrike was ordered on the house, to destroy the evidence.

Jack

 

Umm, no you're wrong.
[edit]Autopsies
Autopsies of the dead revealed that some women and children found beneath a fallen concrete wall of a storage room died of skull injuries. Photographs taken after the fire show that the M728 CEV that penetrated the building while injecting CS gas did not come close enough to cause the collapse, which was more likely the result of the fire; photographs show signs of spalling on the concrete, which suggests that it was damaged by the intense heat.[citation needed]
Autopsy photographs of other children locked in what appear to be spasmic death poses are consistent with cyanide poisoning, one of the results produced by burning CS gas.[40] The DOJ report indicated that only one body had traces of benzene, one of the components of solvent-dispersed CS gas, but that the gas insertions had finished nearly one hour before the fire started, and that it was enough time for solvents to dissipate from the bodies of the Davidians that had inhaled the tear gas.[82]
Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Davidians were shot, including five children under the age of 14. Three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The medical examiner who performed the autopsies believed these deaths were mercy killings by Davidians trapped in the fire with no escape. The expert retained by the Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds "support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution."[62] Another explanation, offered by survivor Clyde Doyle (himself a burn victim) is that the gunshots were mercy killings. In a 1995 press conference in Las Vegas, Nevada, Doyle stated that
"I can understand why someone would end the suffering of someone, especially a child, who had been gassed and was burning to death. That makes more sense than these claims of a 'suicide pact.' The people who are saying that have never been on fire." (Las Vegas Review-Journal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege#Autopsies

 

Yes.

That would be terrible.

It would be even more terrible if the state itself got that way.

Stockpiled so many nukes and rich lobbyists, that they P*** on laws, and were not held accountable.

What a stain on mankind that could leave...

 

Pretty disgusting attitude.

 

Hang on....stop the bus.

The sheriff(?), the one that spoke well of Koresh and all the people there, he said that in Texas you can marry at FOURTEEN, albeit with parental consent.

Is that true, or have I misheard..

 

Six survivors testified that there were charges planted to start the fire. In the 17 months prior to the siege, Koresh spent 200,000 dollars on firearms. He was looking for a confrontation as much as the government was.

He had a plan, again testified too, that he and his clan were going to go out in a "grand style."

They unfortunately took the children with them, according to their plan.

 

Ya, you're wrong. It was the ATF that went in guns a blazin into their compound, not the other way around.
They deserved a fair trial and due process, not a military style raid and a siege.

Your attitude, and the many like you is what allows our very own government to ge away with such outright abuse and disregard of our laws, and rights.

 

All of this.

Well said.

 

Actually, if the government decided to deliver the warrant while in town, none of this would have happened.

What is a shame is that the government decided that all the people in the Waco incident, including the children, were guilty and pursued a response that would guarantee their death. In other words, freedom and the pursuit of happiness come second to a federal score.

All of this happened just before the budget concerns before Congress.

 

Jesus. They could have surrendered at any time and got their "fair trial". THEY chose not to. Plenty of Davidians left long before the siege took place, knowing (*)(*)(*)(*) well they had gotten themselves into a bad spot and what the end result would be. This was not a bunch of people singing kumbaya on a flowery hill ran over by tanks. I am as anti-government as anyone on this site. A bunch of people devoted themselves to the death to a man who was knowingly doing wrong to the point he would rather die than surrender. Could people argue over government tactics? Sure. Can people argue over the government's arrival in the 1st place? Hardly. That end result was designed from the very beginning by the actions the Davidians themselves chose to pursue. The only victims were the children with no choice in the matter.

 

Hello?

Anyone on this?

 

Guilty until proven innocent unless dead. A win for the government.

 

And for the sake of the children in the compound they could have arrested Koresh while he was in town.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. America is vast, and made up of people who hate government down to their bones. I have no doubt in my mind, if the law enforcement officers involved knew how the whole thing was going to go down, they would have done just that. Law enforcement probably deals with such types, on different scales, dozens of times a year. Easy to underestimate this sect's resolve. Remember, the government got their ass handed to them on the initial raid. More ATF got shot than ever before. Only if a situation such as this ever repeats itself can we then say, "they should have learned from Waco".

 

They were counseled by local law enforcement and chose not to listen.

Rules of engagement in general err on the side of protecting children. Why would you storm a compound that you felt was hoarding weapons for ill means, with children inside and not expect a firefight that could endanger those children?

 

no, just the little girls that were raped repeatedly. but yeah, who cares about that right???

 

Goverment sure did a good job of protecting them.

 

Government can't always protect children from parents and guardians bent on killing them.

 

yah gov i agree screwed up, but Koresh wasnt letting any of them walk out alive anyways. terrible tragedy on both ends that should have been dealt with long before that horrible day.

lets hope the same mistakes on our part is never made again.