You heard me. Just because someone, or something, is human, or a human being, does not make it special. What makes any form of life special is its capacity to have a desire to exist. Only some humans possess this quality (although it is the overwhelming majority) and it is only these we need protect. Why? Well because there is nothing innately valuable about anything accept that which we ourselves give value. By this I mean, by wanting to be alive, we constitute an interest in living. Where other beings also have that interest, its only logical, where we think ethically (that is objectively), to recognize the equality of such interests. If you value your life, you are saying your desire to live is valuable, thus if another has a value in being alive, it is also valuable. However, since fetuses, and some who are horrendously mentally disabled, cannot constitute such an interest, there is no need to protect their lives - because they dont actually value it. In this way, some species of fish are entitled to more protection than a fetus. There is nothing special about human life. If you think there is, because humans have an ability for higher reasoning for example, then you haven't shown human life is special - just that higher mental ability is, and by extension of that argument anyway, a fetus has no right to life. Now, get ready for the emotional cries from lifers - because that's all they have as a response.
Here are the contents of a trash bag found in a dumster right outside an abortion clinic from the 1960's: Hmmm, what else does this remind us of... I'm not arguing with the second half of that; the severely retarded should be euthenized in most cases. But fetuses are well on their way to becoming alert intelligent children, whereas the severely retarded will remain in their current state for the duration of their unfortunate lives. It is simply unfathomable that anyone should be allowed to terminate the life of a normal healthy unborn baby. While the fetus in its earlier stages may be more humanoid than baby, it is still very concerning that anyone would want to terminate it. 10-week fetus 19-week fetus
That's gross dude. hmmm... this? Houston man charged with decapitating friend with chainsaw; bag of body parts, saw found near body But, where's the trash bag? That's not like the holocaust at all.
When I wrote I should have added; "and total non sequiturs associating abortion with the holocaust, random acts of violence etc etc."
Yes, abortion is gross, and unsettling, as well it should be. Stop supporting it. Yes, that is about the only difference between the two pictures; one of them has a trash bag on the other doesn't. If you cannot, or just refuse to see the connection between the Holocaust and abortion, I don't think there's any help for you. Both involve[d] discrimination and dehumanisation of a targeted group of people. Both have been carried out on a large scale. In both cases, the perpatrators and defenders turned away their conscience and closed their eyes to what was happening in front of them.
Why should I stop supporting it? Just because its gross, doesnt make it wrong. If I shot a murderer in the head in self defence, I would also find watching his brains fly across the room "gross, and unsettling, as well it should be" but that wouldnt necessarily make my action wrong now, would it? That's what you need to learn mate - gore doesnt make an argument valid - it just means you like pictures too much. Actually there are a lot of differences. One was taken way earlier than the other. One has many many corpses. One is of fetuses, the others of people. One is genocide, one isnt. One is from an immoral action, the other, presumably, from a moral one. So on and so forth. THERE IS NO CONNECTION. The connection is no different between the holocaust and a graveyard! Does that mean graveyards are immoral? You dont have an argument here. Sure, but how does that make, in fact, how does that make EITHER wrong? Ok, but not in the pictures. Not at all. In the case of abortion, the conscience was facing their action and their eyes were completely open. In fact the 'immorality' of the holocaust as you describe it is far similar to the mentality of lifers, since as you yourself show, they cant make any arguments - just emotional appeals. Its amusing, I'll say that. Sorry to tell you, holocaust pictures dont show how abortion is wrong.
I missed the edit. Why? Oh so NOW you're not pro-life? But the fact is fetuses are not intelligent, are they? WHY? WHY? Mate, I know what a fetus is. Please stop putting meaningless pro-life photos up here and make a case. I've seen too much lifer propaganda to buy into it.
What I find interesting is that after a post like this....the emotional cries ONLY come from right to life. Innately those who support abortion tend to agree with you. Even when newborns are considered as disposable as a fetus.
What I find interesting is that after a post like this....the emotional cries ONLY come from right to life. Innately those who support abortion tend to agree with you. Even when newborns are considered as disposable as a fetus.
Wrong!!! What makes someone human is the birth feiry. She waves her magic wand over "it" once "it" pass out of the womb and poof!!! It is transformed into a human being. View attachment 15398
LOL Yeah they only came from lifers because that's all they have - they dont have any rational arguments are responses to give, just childish, nonsensical blathering, ranting and raving about how upset they are. What do you mean? Many oppose this perspective. Many pro-choice folk disagree with that. I do not.
It's like trying to convince Hitler that the Jews have worth. You are wasting your time. They have made up their minds. I just love it when these self righteous atheists come up with their own definition of what makes life worth while in order to protect. There are so many variations it makes one wonder why there is such a mass consensus of inconsistency.
I agree more or less. There is no need to protect a life that does not even have a mind, no matter its genetic code.
Unfortunately it seems some people actually believe that - or that the fairy comes at conception. Regardless, this is irrelevant to the point I am making.
Not at all. If you believe human life has value please go ahead and state why. I have a feeling you cant. Sure, but doesnt change the fact you are wrong.
You would be better served asking me this question here, where it is relevant: http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/233221-when-does-life-begin-part-2-a-11.html#post1061751550
I have heard some say that children with Downs should be killed since they have no intellectual worth. Would you agree?
LOL! So you cant answer the question? Typical lifer weakness. No, the unborn are valued where they have an interest in their existence, and if not that, then when their mother places a value on their life - ie wants to keep them alive. No, not just that - it can be for any reason the mother has for an abortion. Correct - its up to the mother if they have no interest in their existence. 1. How is it arbitrary. 2. How is it confusing 3. I see you have nothing to justify the idea human life is special.
No, rather a thread about the value of human life is really contributed to by talking about the time a human being comes into existence. Like I said I'll gladly discuss this with you on the other thread. hahahah! I see what you did there. Oh that is soooo funny. Oh man, that is so original.
Discussing when a human life becomes of value means that you MUST talk about when it becomes of value, unless you are suggesting that it is OK just to start killing off the homeless and mentally ill because no one seems to value them.
What is arbritrary is that some of the unborn are "valued" and some are not. This is arbritrary. Of course, perhaps you are suggesting that orphans should be euthenized since no one seems to value them. In fact, perhaps we should take a poll here to see if you are valued. If it cannot be proved, perhaps we should seek to put you out of your misery.
What "values" are you referring to exactly? You seem to be conflating what I have said. No, orphans cannot be valued because they value themselves. See? Fetuses do not value themselves. Get it yet? This would be unethical from the position I have described because I value my existence. If I did not, I would simply commit suicide.