Australian crime statistics since the gun ban - homicides DOWN

Whaaaa????

No the NCPA (and I THINK that is what you are referring to) is nicely debunked by the Snopes article in fact

But I am not claiming a causation here - although it is one inference that can be assumed from the data

What I am claiming is that the NCPA and others who would love to try and "prove" that "more guns - less crime" cannot do so from the Australian statistics

 

This is the quote I am referring to "the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime"

 

Yeeerrrrssss

Correlation does not equal causation but that is not what your quote is saying

The research that is being quoted is in all probability this one
http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2008/2008-09-04_Australian-firearms-buyback-effect.pdf

And sorry but where did I claim a miraculous "saving" of people? There is a downward trend - the graph from the gun control site does suggest correlation - as do other graphs but that does not confirm causation, although if one does a meta-analysis of the literature on this the overall correlation become much much stronger. What it also does NOT show is that crime rose - which is what your link purported

 

Unless I am mistaken, wasn't Australia a buy-back? In August 1998 didn't they buy back 650K firearms for $320M Australian? How could USA possibly emulate the gun reduction effort Australia did? We have 325 million legally owned firearms.

 

LOL, that is exactly what you are trying to do in the OP, yet crime is down here too so since gun sales are through the roof correlation does not equal causation.

 

The "Geens" (Greenies), are a political party over here, they are well known for their dishonesty, as are those in the anti gun movement. To say so, isn`t abuse, it`s only straight talk. You have me wrong, but no problems. I grew up with firearms, have used them for hunting, competitions, etc for more years (completely without incident) than I like to recall, BUT if the complete banning of all firearms, was effective in stopping gun crime, I would be the most vigerous anti gunner on the planet. The simple fact is that the Greens / Anti Gunners, show no regard for the truth, we see examples of this time and again.

 

But a buy back was not the only thing we did - we enacted the National Firearms Agreement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

It was a raft of legislation restricting ownership and usage of firearms

For a start you own a gun - you better have it under lock and key unless you are legitimately using it

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No, that is not what I do in the OP - please read again

I posted some graphs showing that the murder rate had gone down - and it had and I made some speculation about the fact that our crimes rarely involve guns

 

i love it have you gun used for self defense under lock and key
i see it now hold Mr rapist while i go get my gun and unlock and then go to wher the ammo is and unlock that then i will load it the one bullet that i am allowed to so that i can shoot at you please wait patiently for this to happen thank you very much Mr rapist.
yes that sounds like a great idea.
I always find it funny how the anti gunners ignore facts like most gun deaths are form suicide and not owning a gun will not stop that, they also ignore that guns are used hundreds of times more in self defense than in killing.
I guess the gun grabbers belive it is better for a person to be knifed and raped than to defend themselves with a gun.

 

Don't need it for defence

The vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by someone known to the victim. Oh! And before you quote the so called "higher rape rate in Australia be aware that our stats do not distinguish between rape and sexual assault

I always find it funny how pro-gunners ignore your horrific firearm injury rate in America

 

What part of "correlation does not prove causation" are you struggling with?

 

Here is what I hear when people try to defend the "Australian way" of gun control.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Same old worn out lines about how much safer then the US they are. First I call BS on that.
And second, I have no interest in going to Australia to live or visit.
So it makes no difference to me what you people gave up or for what reason.
Trust me, the whole Crocodile Dundee thing is over. No one is enamored with the Outback and the great barrier reef.
And one of the reasons why is threads like this. You think you have some superiority over us because you have no where near the gun crime we do.
Good for you, you also dont have the gang problem we do, you also dont have anywhere near the immigrant problem we have.
So you are happy your "leaders" forced you to give up your guns. Good for you. Your joy is duly noted.

 

Sad, very sad.
Yet does not trump our 2A rights.

 

How many are lilled by automobiles every year? Bicycles? Shouldn't you be outraged by those inanimate objects as well?

 

Of course we had a higher rate to begin with. That's my point. The U.S. and Australia are different. It seems to me that your gun control plan didn't lower your crime rates significantly. Our lack of action has lowered rates. Probably means that gun control and crime are unrelated, and that gun control is unnecessary, or at the least ineffective.

 

Homicides and crime in Australia have gone way up since the 1960's, when there were few restrictions on guns.
It more than likely has much more to do with all the immigration and accompanying social problems. So if you really want to reduce violence, limit immigration! Of course, Liberals don't seem willing to do this...

 

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent crime.html

Violent crime statistics

 

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847

 

I can't speak for everyone and I know a lot of people don't keep or handle guns safely; but personally I keep four large gun safes in my well locked down "man cave"; but in my bedroom I prefer to keep a small safe that has a handprint on it and you click the fingers in a certain sequence and the door to it opens. They do the handprint so even in the dark you place your hand and just move your fingers in a memorized pattern. I feel pretty comfortable in my thought that I can get to my weapon in under 2 or 3 seconds (god forbid).

 

No really who cares about Australia...nice emotional response though...I got a better plan.....put guns in schools and then we wouldn't be seeing those horrible images...eh?

 

And what part of "metanalysis of research" are you struggling with

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How often do I have to debunk this !@#!@#@!!!!

 

Forget about the fact that the laws have changed recently so that spitting on a cop is now a serious assault - which would you rather be punched in the face or shot in the street??

 

Straw man. We are using your own countries method of data collection according to your own countries definition of crime. Don't start saying "this doesn't count because it really isn't a violent crime so it shouldn't count". You discredit yourself when you do that. Good job.

 

What a stupid question.

Would you rather be raped or have your head cut off?

Laws do not stop crime. They only define the punishment for breaking the law. In the case of gun ownership, the law only punishes law abiding citizens and deprives them of a means of self defense since they will follow the law. Criminals are not so encumbered.

 

A) not a strawman - please look up what the term means
b) Yes but simple statistics do not always tell the full story - I have given you ONE reason why our assault stats could be rising, another could be an increase in late night licensing causing more alcohol fuelled violence

Correlation does not imply causation

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I disagree - laws frame the society and it is societal pressure and enforcement that act as a brake to illegal activity

Think I am wrong? Just look at those countries where civil disorder reigns