A non-creationist interpretation of Genesis

"There is no god.......the sky spirits told me so." - King Julian

 

If you're claiming that everything has to have a creator, it seems to me that calling something "timeless" is simply special pleading.

 

If, as stephen hawking has said, that the universe had a beginning, then we have to have something that can "cause it". I understand the "special pleading", but at some point there has to be a first cause. And timelessness would be without cause and effect, and would thus not need the natural conveniences that we're accustomed too, for lack of a better way of putting it.

"I don't know" or "we don't know" can be just as accurate as "God did it", but to me it just doesn't make sense. Even if it's not the Christian God, Jewish God, Islamic God or whatever, it still seems just from the way things are set up, that there has to be an "Intelligent" (I know, I slipped in I.D.) force.

 

Actually, Stephen Hawking has said the exact opposite.

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

Your entire argument is an argument from ignorance. Just because you think that it doesn't make sense doesn't make your argument valid. If you think that there has to be something "timeless", it makes just as much sense to think that the Universe is timeless rather than invoking some incorporeal being outside of the Universe.

 

I was actually talking about the part where he said "in conclusion" that the universe had a beginning. My argument may be an argument from ignorance but it appears as yours is as well.

"we don't know" is just as ignorant, which is the point I was driving at, albeit a little nicer than that which you ended up at. I have never understood why people are "keyboard" cowboys on here. I'm always nice and people get rude. Why?

 

"I don't know" or "we don't know" can be just as accurate as "God did it", but to me it just doesn't make sense. Even if it's not the Christian God, Jewish God, Islamic God or whatever, it still seems just from the way things are set up, that there has to be an "Intelligent" (I know, I slipped in I.D.) force.

Actually, it's not. "We/I don't know" is an honest comment. "God did it" is a dishonest comment because there are no facts supporting this claim, just emotion and personal incredulity.

 

Honest can't be ignorant? Dishonest means I've lied, prove it. Exactly you can't prove a negative, however, that doesn't make me dishonest. If a kid tells another kid santa clause brought them toys are they dishonest, or ill informed?

 

Which was the Big Bang for him since that is when time and our Universe as we know it, or would come to know it came into "existence". You're claiming that there was a creation event before the Big Bang, something that Hawking calls nonsensical, which created the singularity that would eventually become our Universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

It isn't being rude, it is what the logical fallacy is called.

 

Well, unfortunately, ignorant is what most people in the current world consider rude. If you didn't mean it in a rude sense, thanks. However, using ignorant on a street corner would probably not go over real well. That just happens to be the society we live in currently.

But anyway, What evidence would you accept as proof that the Universe was created by a Creator?

 

Genesis 1-2.
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Nothing is mentioned that GOD created time and space,
those were already existed along with GOD.

 

The HEAVENS....was a work specific to the Celestial Bodies in the night sky and the distances of space between them.

AboveAlpha

 

Genesis describes the creation of the earth and everything in it happening in about five days...

It then describes the creation of the entire universe (the stars in the sky) happening in one day...

Then, an all powerful God needs to "rest" for one day...

Obviously, there is a lot left out of this rather simplistic, if not cartoonish, version of creation. And if nothing was left out, this alone, has at least three illogical premises in it. Nothing in the Bible shows God explaining these inconsistencies. I usually only hear men offering one inconsistency to explain another.

In fact...men is all I ever hear talking in the place of God.

 

You're not being honest because, you have no idea how it happened yet, you claim "god did it" when you know full well, you don't really know. Then you try prove you position using an appeal to equate the argument mentality of a child to support your claim.

Funny how you "faithful" like to twist right from wrong to make your case. No, you're not being honest.

 

If I believe it I'm being honest. I do have an idea how it happened, I read Genesis.

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No, you BELIEVE you have an idea how it happened when you really don't. Furthermore, you "idea" contains many flaws so, how do you honestly believe your position and "We/I don't know" being equal. You are making a claim you know something, when you don't. That's all.

 

If I believe it, then I'm not dishonest. My Idea comes from scripture. I make the claim that "I know", because scripture says so.

 

And that is the definition of Circular Reasoning, a logical fallacy. Also, in light that there are so many errors in scripture, you still attempt to make the case to choose the one to hold up as valid to support your position.

Again, you don't know, you believe or you wish your position is correct but, you don't know.

 

Amazing logic.....does the circular spin get you dizzy?

[video=youtube;D1n5CQe1krI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1n5CQe1krI[/video]

 

I have found no scripture errors that are conclusive. I believe scripture, and I report what I believe, so you can say I'm misguided but not dishonest.

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No, I'm fine. How are you?

 

Is space created?
nahhh, I don't think so,
if we say nothing, we could say it's an empty space.
So space is always there, even if there was nothing.
and timeis there as well, dormant if space is void.
So, not all things we already distinguish should be created,
they already existed same as GOD.

 

How do you know scripture to be true/accurate. As you've admitted there are mistranslations. And you have never seen the originals to know what they actually said.
You can believe the version you read accurate but you know it isn't. Red Sea/Sea of Reeds.
Until you compare the 1st actual written words, you really have no idea.

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It is relative to one's position or speed.

 

Love that scene!

 

Where do you think there is empty space?

 

I’m well aware of the definition of inerrancy and even of the fact that the Catholic Church probably has a looser definition of it than you do. We’ve already been through the reasons why I think it’s obvious that God did not make the Bible inerrant at great lengths and I see no point in repeating our reflections on how Judas died etc. all over again.

But let me issue an apology: rather than dwelling on about the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy, I should have honoured your concession, that God may have created via evolution. That concession does not even force you to give up your cherished doctrine of Biblical inerrancy. It just requires a non-literal interpretation of Genesis. I applaud that you take such an interpretation into consideration now.