So, ultimately, who's responsibility is it?

Imagine for a moment that the social contract is BS. Taxation would, obviously, be unjustified - no different from common theft.

Man is responsible to himself and his agreements. There's nothing wrong with social responsibility, so long as it's voluntary.

 

so how is the common interest to be served if not by taxation?

I believe humans are more than just reponsible to themselves within their society.

Social responsibility is a universal obligation that strengthens a society, not weakens it.

 

Some ethics are closer to being universal than others. Stealing is one that tends to be more universal among societies. However, property rights often differ between societies. Gypsies are known for viewing property differently than most.

A more nuanced example of ethics involves killing. Most of us believe killing is wrong in most cases, but societies differ on when you're allowed to kill in self-defense. Even states differ on this, like with Castle Doctrine.

So, again, ethics are subjective and are determined by local culture.

And because socialized medicine is only available to select groups, many argue that it would be more of a benefit to society as a whole with a comprehensive NHS.

I question the validity of a lot of tax breaks and deductions, although the biggest ones typically go to the wealthy or big business.

 

Strawman thread.

Which public policy is this supposed to attack, again?

 

You mean values and morals change from culture to culture? You STILL either have a right or wrong action within that culture.

I'm sure they do but we didn't institute our government to benefit society. We instituted it to protect individuals right to life, liberty and property.

Obviously, what would benefit our society more than anything would be to confiscate all wealth and redistribute it.... but why don't we do that?

Wealth redistribution I wealth redistribution. It's wrong regardless of the recipient.

 

Food stamps, section 8 housing, earned income credit, Medicaid, free daycare, free cell phones, ad infinitum.

Any government program that takes from one who earns and hands to another who didn't, simply because they failed to take advantage of the same opportunities.

 

Sure, but I was comparing cultures. In fact, you don't even have to do that. The variety of viewpoints we have here show the variety of ethics that people have even within the same culture.

Abortion is probably one of the most contentious issues regarding ethics. Some people are ok with it, others not. A lot of people vary in what they believe is acceptable with abortion depending on the circumstances.

I don't believe that. Confiscating all wealth would kill ambition. It's why we only confiscate some of it.

I think it depends on the amount taken and what it's used for.

All taxation is "confiscation." However, some amount of taxation is needed to run things.

 

Did you pay for your own education or was it free?

 

His parents paid for it. It's called taxes

 

But it was still free for him right? He didn't pay for it. : P

 

You're stretching. Nothing is for free unless you're poor.

 

I got it on credit. I'm paying for it now. The taxes I pay are being loaned to the kids in school now. They will pay for the generation that follows them. Nothing is free.

 

They partially paid for it unless they happen to be rich.

To truly pay for the total cost of a public education per student is considerably more than what the average couple pays in taxes towards education.

Funds are significantly supplemented by corporate taxes and taxation of the wealthy.

 

And Corporations and the wealthy recoup those taxes by increasing the cost of goods and services that I buy.

 

Through out his parents life I'm sure they will pay enough to cover their son's cost of schooling.

 

Oh the irony just kills it lol.

 

Possibly, although their taxes go to a variety of other things as well. We take a lot of public services for granted.

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To an extent, although prices are limited by demand and competition.

 

We should arrest the person that forced them to work in a plant in Wichita in the first place.? No?

I grew up in a factory town. My Dad was a bartender in a factory bar. I worked in a factory [steel]. I looked at what I was doing, what others all around me were doing, and what future I had ahead of me.

And got the hxxx out of there.

EVERY single one of those factories are GONE now. Some that were huge, covering hundreds of acres of land are now just grassy fields. Even the concrete foundations are gone. No sign they ever existed.

WHO was responsible for me leaving and eventually succeeding?

Maybe my Dad. He always said, "Whatever you carry in your head, you'll never have to carry on your back."

I followed his advice and GOT an education, both formal and a life education. Which means seeing things as they are, not how others think they should be,.

 

Prices cannot go below cost, and taxes, if levied fairly, affects competition evenly.. In other words, if you raise taxes on me, you also raise taxes on my competition. Our costs both increase, and so our prices must follow.

 

You seem to be ignoring price elasticity of demand.

Prices in most markets reach an equilibrium well above unit cost, but when new taxes are applied, the amount they can be raised is dependent on how much consumers are willing to pay.

Sometimes profit margin is reduced.

 

In markets where demand causes that much wiggle room in margins, I concede. Markets with healthy competition have thin margins, and where there is excess demand, that is filled by new players. Nevertheless, your assertion that my education was 'significantly supplemented' by corporate taxes is not wholly accurate, though a valid point.

 

Well, you mentioned that you got your higher education through loans.

I was limiting the discussion to precollegiate education via public schools.

It is true that collegiate education works a bit differently, although public universities are heavily subsidized by even people without kids.

 

If I was ambiguous, apologies. My point was that my public education was, in effect, a loan from those who were paying taxes at the time, and that I am now repaying that loan by paying taxes (to fund education for kids who are now in school), and that they would, in turn, repay THEIR loan when they enter the workforce and are taxed. All in response to JooDee who seems to think that public education is free.

And just for the record, I took no loans for my college education. I paid for it myself.

 

Ah... Well, how did you manage paying for college without loans?

 

Parents paid for the first year (thanks dad!) to get me started. Then, I worked three jobs and spread the 4 year degree over 6 years.