China against Russia

litwin · Oct 10, 2014

will China use Crimean precedent and takes from Moscow what historically has belonged to it. if yes, when? what do you think?

The modern Chinese historical atlases expressly state that the northern boundary of the Yuan Dynasty (Mongol dynasty XIII-XIV centuries) extended to the Arctic Sea and, in the days of the Qing empire (from the XVII century), most of the Russian Far East and parts of Siberia were also part of China. It is believed in Beijing that in the past Russia has taken 1.6 million square kilometers of land, equal to one-sixth of Chinas current territory.

Possibility of a war with its northern neighbor is quite often discussed in Chinese press. According to Russian website daokedao.ru, a pro-government Chinese newspaper Wenweipo published last year an article entitled Six wars in which China must participate in the next 50 years.

The article states that six wars should be arranged for the return of the territories, which imperial China lost as a result of past wars that led to the centennial humiliation of China. China should start wars with Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Japan, Mongolia and Russia. The first conflict, with Taiwan, scheduled, according to the article, between 2020-2025; the last one, with Russia, between 2055-2060.
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http://newslanc.com/2014/04/12/china-against-russia/

Jeannette · Oct 11, 2014

Litwin, China doesn't need to take anything. They are in dire need of land, and thanks to the U.S. Vladimir Putin is now graciously helping them. Russia and China are developing Siberia together and they are creating new silk roads. Now all that infrastructure and industries will need a great deal of man power, and that is something that China has plenty of.

China has the land now, it doesn't need to take it. Why do you think they are calling him Putin the Great? Do you realize there are only eight million Russians in all of Siberia? What that man is doing for humanity is unbelievable, and so what is the exceptional nation doing? Supporting Nazis, supporting terrorists, and wars, wars, and more wars.

Destroyer of illusions · Oct 11, 2014

litwin said: ↑

will China use Crimean precedent and takes from Moscow what historically has belonged to it. if yes, when? what do you think?

http://newslanc.com/2014/04/12/china-against-russia/

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Lithuania can offer himself to the Chinese. Lithuanians not the first time to sell yourself. In addition, the population of Lithuania is still die out.
In Russia, only the hardcore. Photos of St. Petersburg.

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Jeannette said: ↑

Excuse me, but I thought stolen goods were to be given back to their owners? Shouldn't Crimea and Donbas have been given back to Russia?

should Moscovy give back 3/4 of its territory to Mongolia ?

Polish children, killed by Banderas Nationalists.
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fake , fake. it was a family tragedy, pic from Poland
but this pic. the real one . victims of ruSSian "liberators"

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Destroyer of illusions said: ↑

Lithuania can offer himself to the Chinese. [/IMG]
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the first time i agree with you, rushka has offered itself to the China , far-east for support and food

freemarket · Oct 11, 2014

China and Russia are working together treating each other as equals while Washington treats the whole world like 10 year old wards of the court.
http://thebricspost.com/china-russia-finalise-plans-for-gas-pipeline/#.VDkS1TbD_IU

While Washington treats China like a slutty teenage daughter by spying on their every keystroke they try to divert their whorishness by accusing China of stealing corp tech.
Don't they know the hypocrisy the birth righters expose to the rest of the world?
http://thebricspost.com/drop-fabricated-charges-of-hacking-china-to-us/#.VDkTmjbD_IU

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

freemarket said: ↑

China and Russia are working together treating each other as equals while Washington treats the whole world like 10 year old wards of the court.
http://thebricspost.com/china-russia-finalise-plans-for-gas-pipeline/#.VDkS1TbD_IU

While Washington treats China like a slutty teenage daughter by spying on their every keystroke they try to divert their whorishness by accusing China of stealing corp tech.
Don't they know the hypocrisy the birth righters expose to the rest of the world?
http://thebricspost.com/drop-fabricated-charges-of-hacking-china-to-us/#.VDkTmjbD_IU
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LOL. Putler´s narrative,

here info http://blogs.korrespondent.net/blog/politics/3421299/

freemarket · Oct 11, 2014

Quit clogging up my notification page. You are on my "ignore" list and I cant see your whining.

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

every one knows that China needs walmart more then whole rushka

Taxcutter · Oct 11, 2014

European faces are rare east Novosibirsk.

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Taxcutter said: ↑

European faces are rare east Novosibirsk.
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really, how do you know?

vis · Oct 11, 2014

litwin said: ↑

will China use Crimean precedent and takes from Moscow what historically has belonged to it. if yes, when? what do you think?

http://newslanc.com/2014/04/12/china-against-russia/

Click to expand...

China will not attack Russia. Chinese people are bad solders and eventually lost all important wars, therefore,there is no way they will start any war.

clarkatticus · Oct 11, 2014

Putin is a joke, Siberia is a joke, and the Russian economy is a joke. Putin cannot project his power much farther than his own borders nor can China. Putin expands because we don't really care, nothing he gains can he maintain. If his economy gets worse his criminal billionaires will slap him down. China's power is in it's economy but only if it is allowed to expand. Putin is nothing more than a fart in a hurricane.

Jeannette · Oct 11, 2014

Taxcutter said: ↑

European faces are rare east Novosibirsk.
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Who cares?

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

vis said: ↑

China will not attack Russia. Chinese people are bad solders and eventually lost all important wars, therefore,there is no way they will start any war.
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bunch of racial stereotypes... but i agree on your main point, no needs to fight when you can easy buy it ....

Jeannette · Oct 11, 2014

vis said: ↑

China will not attack Russia. Chinese people are bad solders and eventually lost all important wars, therefore,there is no way they will start any war.
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Billion man army...almost

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Overseas Chinese and the Crimea Crisis

Russia’s annexation of Crimea could embolden China to intervene in Southeast Asia and Russia’s Far East.

.... the most interesting possibility is that China could use Russia’s model in Crimea against Moscow itself. As The Diplomat has covered in the past, recent years has seen significant Chinese emigration and investment in Russia’s sparsely populated Far Eastern regions, which border on China. The demographics are daunting; whereas only 7.4 million Russians populate the Far East, China’s three northwestern provinces are home to about 110 million people. And Russia’s rapid population decline will hamper Moscow’s efforts to more densely populate its Fat East in the future. Furthermore, parts of Russia’s Far East historically belonged to China just as Crimea historically belonged to Russia. China also has a strong incentive to annex Russia’s Far East given its natural resource wealth.

Vladimir Putin or his successors could one day come to greatly regret Russia’s annexation of Crimea indeed.
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http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/overseas-chinese-and-the-crimea-crisis/

Why China will “reclaim” Siberia

China has made no secret that it will one day enforce its claims on much of Eastern Russia, which it sees as rightfully belonging to China. With Russia fast becoming the weaker partner in the alliance formed after the west imposed sanctions, just how would China legitimise their claim, and how much territory would they “take back?”

“A land without people for a people without land.” At the turn of the 20th century, that slogan promoted Jewish migration to Palestine. It could be recycled today, justifying a Chinese takeover of Siberia. Of course, Russia’s Asian hinterland isn’t really empty (and neither was Palestine). But Siberia is as resource-rich and people-poor as China is the opposite. The weight of that logic scares the Kremlin.

Moscow recently restored the Imperial Arch in the Far Eastern frontier town of Blagoveshchensk, declaring: “The earth along the Amur was, is and always will be Russian.” But Russia’s title to all of the land is only about 150 years old. And the sprawl of highrises in Heihe, the Chinese boomtown on the south bank of the Amur, right across from Blagoveshchensk, casts doubt on the “always will be” part of the old czarist slogan.

Siberia – the Asian part of Russia, east of the Ural Mountains – is immense. It takes up three-quarters of Russia’s land mass, the equivalent of the entire U.S. and India put together. It’s hard to imagine such a vast area changing hands. But like love, a border is real only if both sides believe in it. And on both sides of the Sino-Russian border, that belief is wavering.

The border, all 2,738 miles of it, is the legacy of the Convention of Peking of 1860 and other unequal pacts between a strong, expanding Russia and a weakened China after the Second Opium War. (Other European powers similarly encroached upon China, but from the south. Hence the former British foothold in Hong Kong, for example.)

The 1.35 billion Chinese people south of the border outnumber Russia’s 144 million almost 10 to 1. The discrepancy is even starker for Siberia on its own, home to barely 38 million people, and especially the border area, where only 6 million Russians face over 90 million Chinese. With intermarriage, trade and investment across that border, Siberians have realized that, for better or for worse, Beijing is a lot closer than Moscow.

The vast expanses of Siberia would provide not just room for China’s huddled masses, now squeezed into the coastal half of their country by the mountains and deserts of western China. The land is already providing China, “the factory of the world,” with much of its raw materials, especially oil, gas and timber. Increasingly, Chinese-owned factories in Siberia churn out finished goods, as if the region already were a part of the Middle Kingdom’s economy.

One day, China might want the globe to match the reality. In fact, Beijing could use Russia’s own strategy: hand out passports to sympathisers in contested areas, then move in militarily to “protect its citizens.” The Kremlin has tried that in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and most recently the Crimea, all formally part of other post-Soviet states, but controlled by Moscow. And if Beijing chose to take Siberia by force, the only way Moscow could stop would be using nuclear weapons.

There is another path: Under Vladimir Putin, Russia is increasingly looking east for its future – building a Eurasian Union even wider than the one inaugurated recently in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan, a staunch Moscow ally. Perhaps two existing blocs – the Eurasian one encompassing Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan and the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation – could unite China, Russia and most of the ‘stans. Putin’s critics fear that this economic integration would reduce Russia, especially Siberia, to a raw materials exporter beholden to Greater China. And as the Chinese learned from the humiliation of 1860, facts on the ground can become lines on the map.
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http://chinadailymail.com/2014/07/05/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia/

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Jeannette said: ↑

Billion man army...almost
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who needs an army ,when one deals with a chronicle alcoholic and a loser (moscovite far- east)?

litwin · Oct 11, 2014

Why the restless Chinese are warming to Russia's frozen east
Russia's Far East is emptying of people but is very mineral rich, says David Blair

The endless silver birch forests of the Russian Far East might appear so desolate and windswept that no one could possibly be interested in them. Yet the vast swath of territory between Lake Baikal and Vladivostok may become a new theatre of confrontation between Russia and China in the decades ahead.

For now, the two giant neighbours have been thrust together by their shared suspicion of America and they cooperate as tactical allies, working in the United Nations Security Council to contain Washington's power. But this affinity is based on little more than having the same rival. The empty lands of the Russian Far East, far closer to Beijing than Moscow, contain major sources of tension between the two powers.

This is where the headlong decline of Russia's population is having its most dramatic impact. Year by year, a region that was always largely devoid of human beings is remorselessly losing its last inhabitants.

Only 6.7 million people live in the Far East region, far less than the population of Greater London, and 14 per cent fewer than in the late 1980s. They are scattered across a homeland so vast that it almost defies comprehension. Add together Britain, France and Germany and then multiply their combined areas by five and they would still be smaller than the Russian Far East.

Moreover, more than a third of the area's last inhabitants are concentrated in only nine towns. The vast tracts between these isolated population centres are empty. And even in the towns, the population is falling: the Russian Far East is forecast to have only 4.5 million people by 2015.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the border, the picture could scarcely be more different. Of China's total population of 1.3 billion, at least 100 million inhabit the three provinces of Manchuria, directly adjacent to Russia. This means that Manchuria already has a population density 62 times greater than the Russian Far East. This vast disparity between the neighbours, unmatched anywhere else in the world, can only grow in the years ahead. This would probably create tension even without another crucial factor.

China has an insatiable appetite for the world's natural resources to sustain an economic boom that powers ahead despite the global downturn. Official figures released yesterday showed that China's economy managed an annual growth rate of 7.9 per cent in the second quarter of this year.

The quest for raw materials is the central goal of the country's foreign policy. And virtually every natural resource imaginable is found just over the border. Here, beneath steppe and tundra, are large reserves of natural gas, oil, diamonds and gold, while millions of square miles of birch and pine provide immense supplies of timber. All this amounts to an astonishing combination: a densely packed country trying to keep its economy roaring ahead by laying its hands on natural resources, living alongside a largely empty region with huge mineral wealth and fewer inhabitants year on year. Russia and China might operate a tactical alliance, but there is already tension between them over the Far East. Moscow is wary of large numbers of Chinese settlers moving into this region, bringing timber and mining companies in their wake.

After the Soviet Union's collapse in 1991, Moscow lost much of its control over Russia's most remote regions. The great achievement of Vladimir Putin, now the prime minister, was to assert the Kremlin's authority once again by rebuilding the power of the state.

But will this be sustainable in the Far East? There is no serious prospect of China invading the empty lands to the north or formally seeking to annex them. Instead, a steady flow of Chinese migrants and investment into the region might achieve this outcome by stealth. Russia faces the prospect of losing control by inches over the eastern third of the country.

Tension between the two powers in this part of the world is not new. Territorial wrangles in the Far East ranked among the prime causes of the Sino-Soviet split during the Cold War. In the late 1960s, frontier disputes spilled over into military clashes that claimed hundreds of lives. At one point, the confrontation became so heated that Leonid Brezhnev considered a pre-emptive nuclear strike against China and sounded out President Nixon's administration in Washington to see whether this option would be tolerated. America replied with an emphatic "no" and the Nixon administration skilfully exploited the opportunity created by Sino-Soviet rivalry.

America's opening to China and the restoration of diplomatic ties in 1972, combined with détente with the Soviet Union and the first arms control treaty, were the outcomes. Because they were at loggerheads with each other, China and the Soviet Union each calculated that they needed better relations with America.

Something similar could happen in the decades ahead. If Russia begins losing control over the Far East to a resurgent China, the Kremlin will have to seek America's help. While Mr Putin's driving purpose is to show that Russia has the strength to stand alone, in the end America may be an indispensable ally to contain a rising China. Those steadily emptying forests in the Far East explain why.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...inese-are-warming-to-Russias-frozen-east.html

Jeannette · Oct 11, 2014

clarkatticus said: ↑

Putin is a joke, Siberia is a joke, and the Russian economy is a joke. Putin cannot project his power much farther than his own borders nor can China. Putin expands because we don't really care, nothing he gains can he maintain. If his economy gets worse his criminal billionaires will slap him down. China's power is in it's economy but only if it is allowed to expand. Putin is nothing more than a fart in a hurricane.
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Someday, its possible that voices of sanity in Washington will be wondering aloud how the U.S. lost Russia to China...Pepe Escobar

China, Russia hold US in Eurasian squeeze - Think of China as a magnet for a new world order in a future Eurasian century in which the United States might find itself progressively squeezed out of Eurasia, with a future Beijing-Moscow-Berlin strategic trade and commercial alliance emerging as a Great Game-changer. Place your bets soon. Theyll be called in by 2025. - Pepe Escobar

Jeannette · Oct 11, 2014

litwin said: ↑

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...inese-are-warming-to-Russias-frozen-east.html
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Wishful thinking

Taxcutter · Oct 12, 2014

litwin said: ↑

really, how do you know?
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Taxcutter says:
I talk to oil guys. The Russians need American oil & cold weather savvy, so they hire US companies. They run in and out through Vladivostok.

Taxcutter · Oct 12, 2014

Jeannette said: ↑

Who cares?
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Taxcutter says:
Russia. And China.

Thehumankind · Oct 12, 2014

Siberia is extraordinarily rich in minerals, containing ores of almost all economically valuable metalslargely because of the absence of Quaternary glaciation outside highland areas. It has some of the world's largest deposits of nickel, gold, lead, coal, molybdenum, gypsum, diamonds, diopside, silver and zinc, as well as extensive unexploited resources of oil and natural gas.[40] Around 70% of Russia's developed oil fields are in the Khanty-Mansiysk region.[41] Russia contains about 40% of the world's known resources of nickel at the Norilsk deposit in Siberia. Norilsk Nickel is the world's biggest nickel and palladium producer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia

That would be a hard target for China to tackle but later on if the need of the 1.3B souls would become overwhelming and they would focus their sights on this region to satisfy the needs then there is a big possibilty that they will go for it.

Ivan88 · Oct 12, 2014

The Yankees have dreams of China fighting Russia and letting the NEO-CONS make tons of profits off the looting Siberia.

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