Israel slams eu over plan to take hamas off terror list **MOD WARNING**

Have you ever considered what you would have done , had you been a Palestinian living in Gaza . ?

Have you ever enquired why Hamas is attacking Israel ?

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Gaza is the world's largest Concentration Camp




"Under what conditions are the people within its borders permitted to live?

Israel controls most of Gaza's land borders, just as Israel controls the air space above it and the waters that border Gaza on the west. The sole exception is the small border with Egypt, and Israel subjects that border to attacks whenever it chooses. In essence, nothing is permitted in or out of Gaza without Israel's permission. When Israel imposes severe restrictions on what and who is allowed to enter and leave Gaza, the consequences are catastrophic, as Uri Avnery explained a few years ago:


The blockade on land, on sea and in the air against a million and a half human beings is an act of war, as much as any dropping of bombs or launching of rockets. It paralyzes life in the Gaza Strip: eliminating most sources of employment, pushing hundreds of thousands to the brink of starvation, stopping most hospitals from functioning, disrupting the supply of electricity and water.

Israel imposes conditions on Gaza and its inhabitants that necessarily result in a slow, long, lingering death. Unjustified but quick murder, murder which occurs in an instant, is a terrible crime. How are we to describe the crime that sentences a huge number of people to death, but does so in a manner that ensures the unendurable pain will last for years, that pain and deprivation can never be forgotten, that agony becomes the increasingly overwhelming component of a human being's existence?

I speak here of the necessary, inevitable final consequence of the policy Israel has chosen with deliberation and great care. Yes, people in Gaza still go about their lives to the extent they can. They still enjoy the company of family and friends; they continue to celebrate birthdays and holidays. They seize those rare, precious moments of happiness that circumstances allow. That they have moments of reprieve from the horror that ultimately awaits them does not make the horror imposed on them better.

It makes it worse, infinitely, unimaginably worse. Israel's policy is that of a monstrous sadist, a sadist who finds hideous pleasure in subjecting its victims to pain that lasts a lifetime.

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The inhabitants of Gaza act in defense of their lives, to the extent the hell to which they are condemned can be called "life" at all. That is: "When you leave people no choice but to engage in violence, they'll engage in violence." This, too, must never be acknowledged.

The torture that Israel inflicts on Gaza is of a rare, uncommon refinement; this is torture that is endlessly inventive, forever finding new ways of prolonging the suffering of its victims. Consider:


In 2010, Israel relaxed its economic siege following an international outcry over its deadly raid of a Turkish-flagged humanitarian flotilla, allowing Gazans to legally import more consumer goods. Hamas took the opportunity to transform the tunnels, which were previously used for only basic consumer goods, into a government-sanctioned trade route for raw construction materials and cheap Egyptian petrol, fueling the economic boom of 2011 and 2012.

The rapid, subterranean inflow through the tunnels spurred a bustling construction sector that accounted for 27 percent of job growth in the Gaza Strip in 2011, private sector groups say.

The economy improved so much that, according to a September poll released by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, just 9 percent of Palestinians believe the blockade on Gaza is the most serious problem facing Palestinian society today. ...

Devastated by the economic siege, during which 30 percent of Gaza’s businesses closed, the economy grew a staggering 20 percent in 2011, according to the International Monetary Fund. Per capita gross domestic product also increased by 19 percent in 2011.

"The role the [Hamas] government is playing is a positive one.

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(The above extract was from a 2012 article.)


Read and learn here :

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33077.htm


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"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow man *


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You know, Borat, that is quite an interesting point that you made - well worthy of analysis.

Let’s see – on this forum we have established on many occasions that Israel triggered most of the serious conflicts. I doubt that any diligent forum member would argue that Israel set off:

# The Lavon “Affair” in 1954
# The attack on Egypt in 1956
# The invasion of Jordan in December 1966 and of Syria in April 1967 – which led directly to Egypt’s actions two months later – see recent confirmatory analyses by John Quigley and Ami Gluska
# That Israel invaded Lebanon 1982 on trumped-up charges leading to the slaughter of Palestinians, falsely claiming “it was the rockets raining down on Israel that caused it”
# That Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers in 2006 because Israel failed to comply with a prior prisoner-swap agreement and the slaughter of Palestinians
# That Israel started the 2006 fiasco with Gaza by assassinating a senior Hamas official  bombing a family on a beach in Gaza  imprisoning Gazans  kidnapping Corporal Shalit  Operation Summer Rains, and the attendant slaughter of Palestinians, claiming “it was the rockets raining down on Israel that caused it”
# That the events leading to Operation Cast Lead in 2008/9 occurred when Israel broke an existing ceasefire in November 2008
# That the November 2012 mini-slaughter started during a truce agreement when Israel assassinated yet another senior Hamas official, claiming “it was the rockets raining down on Israel that caused it”
# That the 2014 event was triggered by the IDF murder of two Palestinian teenagers, which led to the revenge murder of three Israeli youths.

So, let us see – Al-Queda – why exactly did they fly aeroplanes into two tall buildings? What did their leader say about the reason in his video of October 2004? Did Faux News ever tell >50% of the American TV watchers? Or CNN; or NBC? Did it perhaps have anything to do pre-2001 events on the above list and the US support for the occupation since 1967?

 

I hate to break it to you but your gibberish is not analysis, it's not even pseudo analysis, it's nothing more than one side propaganda full of lies, distortions, omissions, cherry picked events taken out of historical context.... your historical fantasies that would make revisionist historians blush in shame if they were to read this nonsense have been refuted so many times that anyone with any sense of decency would have long crawled back home to South Africa to fight the status of the murder and rape capital of the world.

But in true Goebells fashion you keep repeating the same absurd nonsense, hoping it will stick... it won't, you won't find a single pro or anti Israel historian who would agree with any of your claims.

 

You know, Borat, that is quite an interesting point that you made - well worthy of analysis.

ISIS? My gut reaction is to say “Wipe them out”. But that is almost certainly partly due to my lack of knowledge. Jürgen Todenhöfer said (yes, I know, he is from ‘somewhere else’) that “Each day, hundreds of willing fighters arrive from all over the world,” he told tz. “For me it is incomprehensible.” For me too ---- and THAT WORRIES ME.

Well, I personally was appalled by the bit that “all religions who agree with democracy have to die” and that Isis want to “conquer the world”. The only other religions to be spared, Todenhöfer said, were the “people of the book” – Jews and Christians. Since I belong to neither, I appear to be potentially in the doo-doo.

But how are Isis and Al-Queda different …. Or the same?
http://www.vox.com/cards/things-about-isis-you-need-to-know/what-is-isis
“Some experts believe ISIS may overtake al-Qaeda as the most influential group in this area globally.”

But of course all of this – Al-Qaeda and ISIS - has nothing to do with Hamas, as I am sure you know.
Or don’t you?
Here is a hint: Israel did not create Al-Qaeda. Get it?

 

Then why have you not been able to prove .... just for starters, of course ..... that Israel was not responsible for the Lavon Affair or for the 1956 attack on Suez (driven by Ben-Gurion's "fantastic plan"? Ever hear of it, Borat?

I challenge you to drop the tantrum and provide some facts on those two events (points up). When you have done with Kindergarten, we can progress to others.

This is hijacking this thread, I will start a new one, so as to give you lots of space.

 

What is happening right now is that the enemies of Israel, to include Western Europe and especially the people of Gog in the Ukraine, is the end of days moment that comes with the Jews recognizing Jesus was their Elijah, returned as proised in 32AD.

Now these peoples who have hated Israel will all see themselves fighting internally as the Arabs are already doing.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, (which is Israel today), and will smite every "horse," (meaning philosopy/Religion), of the people with blindness, (1Kings explains Christ as the Elijah).

 

Go read history books, even revisionist ones, then come back and post something worthy of debate, not this childish fantasy that you try to pass for history... you got the lavon affair right though, 1956 was triggered by Egyptian actions and conceived, planned and instigated by Brits and the French. As I said, lies, distortions, deliberate omissions and out of context events.

 

I am taking the time to address your comments in respectful debate.

In regards to 1 above, nothing in what you provided proves terrorism is "cosmetic". When "cosmetic" is used to describe surgery, it is understood to be non life threatening and elective not necessary like plastic surgery. I understand the word "cosmetic" to mean superficial. The definition of terrorism is simple, it suggests using violence, terror and murder to express one's political view or impose one's political view. There's nothing cosmetic about that. Terrorism kills. Terrorism injures. Terrorism maims. That is real and its reality is established by the physical, emotional and psychological damage it inflicts. Your response did not address that but instead provides a subjective interpretation of terrorism being used by you to describe many conflicts. That does not make it cosmetic. It makes it for you a subjective accusation that you feel flexible and can be used in all sorts of conflicts. I disagree and have explained why, you with do respect have not but I do understand you think you can use it for many situations but you seem reluctant to use it to describe what Hamas does. Why the selectivity?

In regards to 2, you told me not to make assumptions. You make want to practice the same rule. At no time did I describe the conflict in the Middle East between Israel and its Arab neighbours as good and evil. In fact many times on this forum I do not see either Palestinians or Israelis as good or evil, wrong or right. I also don't use words like evil to describe terrorism. Evil and good to me are religious terms that come from Christianity and Islam.

To me in my cognitive processes, we are all both evil and good and struggle every day with our gift of free choice to decide whether we engage in positive or negative things. That is as far as I go on good or evil. I do not think I am more good or evil than anyone else. My criticism as to Hamas applies to all terrorists equally and I use the exact same harsh standard with the Jewish Defence League, Kach Party (which was outlawed by Israel) and other extremist groups of any religious conviction. Your flexible use of terrorism does not mean because I disagree with that flexible use to select who you like and do not like politically, does not mean I believe in good or evil. What I see are humans-with the equal capacity to be either good or evil and when I see people like you use the word terrorist in a flexible and selective manner, I question it because I think when you do that, you in fact deny terrorism exists as anything but a superficial name thrown about.

Terrorism to me is real. It is putting pieces of flesh in bags. Its placing livers and kidneys in bags. Its placing arms and legs and heads in bags. Its seeing heads leak like pumpkins and entrails steaming. Its real. Its about people clutching their limbs and eyes trying to prevent them from falling off. Its about
crying, screaming, mothers wailing. Its not about name calling. Its about a soldier I know who committed suicide because of what he saw. Its real. Its not a name.

In regards to 3, I did not. Read what I wrote. What I stated is that in your very country where the IRA engaged in a terror campaign Britain would not sit down with the IRA until they denounced terror and disarmed. Israel asks for the same thing. Neither Britain or any other nation including Israel can sit down with terrorists until they disarm.

This brings us to your comments in 4. No you can't sit at a table with someone and talk if there position is you should not exist and they have a mission to Allah to kill you. What do you discuss-how to die? Use common sense. Common sense alone would tell you that Hamas has a constitution that rejects any kind of peace initiative with Israel so what is there to talk about?

See its easy for you to lecture Israel to sit and talk to Hamas.So did Obama and John Kerry during the last conflict uprising but while they did that, Hamas attacked Israel. Hamas said they wanted to talk and as Israel prepared to talk, they used that request as a cover to send in Hamas terrorists in tunnels to attack. Its easy to play arm chair analyst to tell someone what they should do with terrorists when the gun is not pointed at your head.

Netanyahu knows far more than you as to the actual threats against his people. There are things he and his fellow leaders are privy to that you are not privy to. Remember that when you assume and presume and adapt a patronizing tone claiming to know what Israel should do with Hamas.

Interestingly Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Saudi Arabia have the exact same position on Hamas. How about you lecture those 3 nations as well when you presume to know what Hamas is. This notion you have they would sit down with Israel or any other nation is interesting as well. Fatah's terrorist wing are at war with them and won't sit with them.

Finally your comment in 5 is again a subjective stereotype and in fact it is you expropriating the holocaust to engage in debate. You in fact accuse Israel and AIPAC of exploiting anti-Semitism and the holocaust to defend Israel's right to exist and when they are criticized.

Its one thing to make such allegations, its another to provide evidence of such allegations. Please provide your basis for the above accusations. I would be very interested in reading the speeches or words you claim.

What I can say is that in my case, when I am on this discussion board, often when we are supposed to be debating certain issues such as whether Hamas is a terrorist organization or not which is the purpose of this thread, someone like you wants to go off on a tangent making allegations about all Israelis, AIPAC, in one sweeping, sterpotype and accusation designed suggest ALL Israelis or all AIPAC members in this case have nothing better to do then call people anti-semites or expoit the holocaust.

Let me make this clear, it was Hamas in its constitution that called Israelis Nazis repeatedly.

When criticizing Israel if someone makes a comment that negatively stereotypes all Israelis they are anti Israeli. If they make a comment that negatively stereotypes Jews, then they are being anti-Semitic. Whether they are either depends on the context of their comments.

Many people do not understand the difference between Jews and Israelis or Judaism and Zionism and Israeli citizenship and interchange the words making incorrect and negative assumptions and stereotypes of all Jews, and in such situations they are criticized.

For you to make a sweeping accusation that AIPAC or Israelis do this without good reason let alone simply because they can't handle criticism is of course just your subjective stereotype projected on Israelis.

I have had huge battles on this forum with say Snake or Trout but both have been at least courteous enough with me despite our huge differences that they do not deliberately say things to me that insult Jews when discussing Israel. I have notice they have at least tried not to. I can even say that about other anti Israelis on this forum I battle. Most of us no matter how heated we get understand, making comments that negatively stereotype all Israelis, all Jews, all Arabs, all Muslims, all Christians, all Americans, its equally as stupid and pointless.

Now one last thing. You really need to find out what goes on in Israel if you think it can not handle criticism. Every moment of the day on its tv, radio, on its internet, its blogs, newspapers, comes harsh criticism of its government from its own citizens whether they be Jewish, Christian,Muslim, Druze, etc.

The open never ending freedom of political expression is a fact and manifested in the loud and boisterous Knesset. Its laughable for you to think Israelis do not have thick skin. Sure they may have given up their foreskins but they are thick skinned. Get real.

Furthermore You clearly no nothing about AIPAC or the American supporters of Israel. They regularly and openly criticize Israeli state policies. All you have to do is read what they say.

This notion you have AIPAC is some sort of mind cult, or Jews are part of some Borg like cult that pisses its pants over criticism is a laugh. The one thing we Jews are known for, is our self criticism. Its the very basis of our culture. The whole point of the Talmud was to set into motion a debate that never ends as to who we are, what we believe in and how we will continue to survive as a collective. The very basis of our collective identity is based on a never ending debate or argument.

 

Gaza



Concentration Camp

 

The facts are that:

Christ did the same exact things as had Elijah, but 800 years later:

1) Both Elijah and Christ raised the dead:

1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where .Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal:

2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

3) Both Elijah and Christ. ascended into Heaven before witnesses:

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it,

Luke 24:.51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven

4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:

1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?

Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death:

1 Kings 19:14.. And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death

6) Both Elijah and Christ.... were hunted by the Jewish authorities:

1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

7) Both Elijah and Christ.... hid in a cave/tomb:

1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth...

Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:....

1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

9) Both Elijah and Christ. walked on across the water

2 Kings 2:8.. And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground

Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea

10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:

2 Kings 2:14.. And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over

Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.

11) Both Elijah and Christ.... wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:

2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from ..Elijah.. the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,\

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:\

2 Kings 2:9.. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And ..Elisha.. said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me

Matthew 16:18.. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this .rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:

2 Kings 8:5.. And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom ..Elisha.. restored to life.
Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed.; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

14) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to heal:

2 Kings 5:10.. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk

15) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other:

1 Kings 19:19.. So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

16) Both Elijah and Christ asked that the this "cup" be taken from them:

1Kings 19:4 .But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die (because he was afraid of what was coming from Jezebel: [1Kings 19:3]), and said, "It is enough (they seek my life, to take it away: [1Kings 19:10]); now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, (because he began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed: [Matt 26:37]), let this cup pass from me (It is enough: [1Kings 19:4]): nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

17) Both Elijah and Christ had miraculous births:

Jewish Encyclopedia:
Three different theories regarding Elijah's origin are presented in the Haggadah: Mention must be made of a statement which, though found only in the later cabalistic literature (Yal?u? Reubeni, Bere(*)(*)(*)(*), 9a, ed. Amsterdam), seems nevertheless to be very old (see Epiphanius, l.c.), and according to which Elijah was an angel in human form, so that he had neither parents nor offspring.
See also Melchizedek.

Matthew1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1 Both Elijah and Christ destroyed pagan worshippers and priests. Elijah destroyed the priests of Baal; Christ, the Pantheon of Rome, 380AD:

IKi 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

History: Universal Christianity in 380AD:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (32AD -1054AD)\

19) Both Elijah and Christ were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.\

2 Kings 2:2.. I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel\
2 Kings 2:4.. I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho\
2 Kings 2:6.. I will not leave thee. And they two went on\

John 21:17.. He saith unto him the third time,... "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou me?"

20) Both Elijah and Christ. condemned a Jezebel:\

2 Kings 9:36 Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel:\

Rev 2:20 ..Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds...

21) Both Elijah and Christ re-dedicated the Israelite people to God by raising up a new altar or temple:\

1 Ki 18:30.. And ..Elijah.. said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.\

22) Both Elijah and Christ chose one man upon which to build his following:

2 Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him\

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and ..upon.. this ..rock.. I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.\

23) Both Elijah and Christ were subject of a three day 'search' for their presence:

2 Kings 2:1 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send.
They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

Second facts:

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, (in 70AD), and the abomination (of the Dome of the Rock, in 690AD), that maketh (the Temple) desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, (1290 + 690 = 1980AD, when Jerusalem is again the capital of Israel).

 

And that can apply to any country/group/individuals. Even Israel. Which is why I said it is cosmetic because it is merely a label because it does not explore why these acts are committed in the first place. It presents a good vs evil scenario.

Yes both sides have committed unlawful acts, including Hamas.

You do not even need to describe it. You have indirectly suggested this conflict is good vs evil by describing one side as terrorist.

I don't use the word terrorism.

So? Why are you telling me this? Like I said I actually disagree with how Britain handled the IRA. Countries can sit down and talk to its enemies. No one said it was easy.

Evidence for this.

Yes. It always does that to direct attention from the core issues. Even a former Israeli Minister said that in a video I have posted here.

Already have. Here is some more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnnQ_qTx9rY

I'm actually referring to representatives of Israel (politicians) and AIPAC.

All countries get criticised on a daily basis. You just never hear of it because you only seem to focus on Israel.

 

Once Israel sees that Christ was their Elijah, the false cry of muslims, that "Allah is one" proves Muhammed was the False Prophet which was to come, and certifies that Jesus was the messiah ben Joseph.

Shiite VS Sunni becames a waste of time to prove which is the most hard headed and wrong by winning, and peace over all the world follows as was predicted.

Zechariah 8
1 Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying,

2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of Truth, ("I am the Truth, the way and the life," [John 14:6]); and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

 

HBendor try to understand the Bible was written by unknown men and is a work of fiction. Stop trying to take the world back 2000 years at least the Islamic Terrorists only try 1300 years. The Bible is irrelevant to a proper discussion about who stole land for the last 70 years or whether Hamas is a terrorist group!.

Other points that need clarifying,

Israel does not speak for or represent the majority of Jews. Never has.

The Holocaust was not committed by Hamas! the Palestinians or even Arabs it was the culmination of 2000 years of Christian persecution of the Jews. So why do Israelis keep bringing it up?

The majority of Jews prior to 1939 who died in the Holocaust were against the creation of the state of Israel, so again why do Zionists keep bringing it up?

The British government only achieved a peace settlement with the IRA because John Major entered into discussions with them before they gave up their arms.

The huge lesson that should be learned from the Ireland conflict is that without dialogue there can be no peace, the EU is taking a huge and courageous risk in removing Hamas from the terrorist list. I sincerely hope it leads to peace, just about everything else has been tried!

 

Please keep this religious mumbo jumbo out of the debate, if it was not for the lust for power and influence of the men who created these myths the world and the middle east in particular might be a much safer place!

 

Actually they would probably still be wars. Religion is a significant motivational factor that drives these wars. Wars are usually about obtaining more land, resources and so on. Religion, nationalism and other ideological beliefs make it easier to gather support.

There are some conflicts that are due to religion and makes things more complicated though. So I see where you are coming from.

 

Yes, we see Shiites killing Sunni and visa versa.
But the Jews and the Christians are not doing this.

Again, when wars comes, the loyal are called by the Nationalism that leaders use, and the rligious are focused on their belief that God is on their side of the matter.
But these are no the "causes," which are usually political in nature.

 

You can't keep the Bible or the Koran out of the present conditions, because THEY are the one thing that Terrorism is all about.
Isn't it?

And you are misinformed about the Bible as fiction, because recent Genetic Tests have shown that the Jewish priests are all related to just man, Aaron, of course, as stated in Exodus.
They were all to be sons of Aaron, and the genetics shows that this is true today.

Then, these genetics dovetail with the recent discovery that a monotheism DID exist in 1360BC in Egypt.
But the Pharaoahs after that time carefully hid the facts until we dug them up in archeology.

 

Let me pour some more oil on the debate with these pictures:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12/israel_and_gaza.html

No comment!

Be back later!

 

Israel steals land, builds illegal settlements, strips Palestinians of their Permanent Residency Status, enforces discriminatory laws.

why the (*)(*)(*)(*) should the world like Israel?

 

###'


Read and learn

Zionist / Nazi concentration camp PHOTO is a FAKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvOZhsi_ag

The holocaust was just one element of many in the Zionist effort to create Israel. It worked but not without perpetual problems and a possible ultimate failure.

Go check with TRueTorahJews the learned Rabbis who maintain that Zionists stole the name "Israel" and that a Jewish state should NOT exist, but that "Jews" must live in peace with Non-Jews until whenever their God decides.




[video=youtube;ffUTRjQSihk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUTRjQSihk[/video]


.....


go here and learn //beyondnews.info/post/49864536404/concentration-camps-fake-photos-photoshopped

....

 

the Bible has no legal standing as far as land ownership is concerned.

 

#


Its obvious that the photo you've posted is out of date + very deceptive - here're a few more recent ones :


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=w...ei=4oGYVM-HN4uxUbTrgeAF&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

or :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=w...h&sa=X&ei=Z4aYVLjmE8u0UajUgjA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw


====

G'nite


...

 

Dixon

cut the crap - no one (not even Israelis or "diaspora" Jews ) believe Zionists lies any more .

see What is really happening in Gaza

watch - listen and learn :

[video=youtube;Mo24XZT2yd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo24XZT2yd8[/video].....


...

 

Marlowe I now will take time to respond to some of your comments above.

In regards to 1, I have stated many times on this forum as you are aware I can not speak for, or presume to understand EITHER Palestinians or Israelis .

In regards to 2, no I have had no need to. Hamas has not exactly been quiet about why it attacks.

3-I have been to Gaza, and I have stated numerous times it is not a pleasant place to live but Marlowe I was also there when Hamas was not a terrorist organization but ran charities that were against violence and those charities working with Israelis and Israeli money built roads, schools, houses, mosques, the very same structures the Syrian cell of Hamas when it took over, blew up. I was there when the Syrian cell of Hamas violently took over and systematically blew up Gaza and killed and tortured Palestinians whose crime was working with Israelis for peace.

Gaza was created by Nasser. He hated Palestinians and laced them in this 25 square mile open air prison as punishment for not defeating Israel. I know all about the Fedayheen that would come in to Ber Sheva's outskirts from the strip and have to be shot dead, sometimes by Beduins not just Israelis.

This brings us to 4. Your picture only presents one side of the story. You present Israel as this overpowering controller of Gaza. Really? Try again. Try the name Hamas. Israel contains Hamas externally, not internally. What goes on inside Gaza is a direct result of Hamas, not Israel.

This brings us to 5, of course Israel is at war with Hamas. Did you not notice? Of course it has a navy trying to blockade and prevent weapons coming in from the sea. There is a war going on. What is Israel supposed to do, let Hamas arm itself more than it has?

Yes the embargo causes delays but you with due respect you have misrepresented the situation on the ground. No one in Palestine is starving. Yes their electricity and water and sewage is a mess. Yes they live in very bad dehumanizing rubble now but you seem to want to just point the finger at Israel and ignore Hamas' role in this state of affairs.

Had Hamas rejected terror, disarmed and sat down with Israel, Gaza would be part of a common market with Israel, Jordan, and the West Bank. That could still happen but not if Hamas clings to its ridiculous constitution no different than the one of ISIL and Al Quaeda and Hezbollah and the 300 other terror cells including Al Asqa Martyr Brigades, Fatah Hawks and Eagles,Palestinian Intifadah and Jihad, Palestinian Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

If you really are concerned about Palestinians then be fair in your analysis and look at the role Hamas has played in the decay of Gaza which I will present in the next post.

As well I note you did not deny the terror attacks I pointed out by Hamas and that is the point. Its kind of hard to-they are fact.