Or why prosecutors readily drop firearm charges against career criminals, but pursue charges against people who commit technical violations.
Criminals don't need a new gun after every use. Firearms last for generations. They don't have to keep getting new guns all the time.
ok, maybe. But it's really an issue of trying to squeeze out the air from a half-inflated balloon. Ever tried it? You can squeeze all you want, but the air just keeps moving to another part of the balloon and causing it to bulge outward. It's the same with gun control and crime. You can squeeze all you want, but criminals will just look for new places to find guns, or utilize different weapons to do the job, if that's more convenient. There no real way to stop them from getting guns entirely (not unless you want to live under a totalitarian police state). Meanwhile, how many otherwise innocent people are going to fall victim to all these gun laws?
The allure of easy money is significant motivation to convince others to supply firearms, regardless of how illegal it is. We have already seen such serve as a corrupting influence for police officers. There is no reason to assume the same will not apply to any member of the general public when approached. Scruples and respect for the law are degrading every day as society becomes more hedonistic.
So my points are Any crime is less dangerous if a gun is not involved If illegal guns are less Available, poor criminals will be less likely to use them
I’m not much of a source on percentages of where the firearms come from. In my experience they come from a variety of sources. Sometimes they are bought from an FFL dealer by a straw purchaser. Sometimes they are stolen. Sometimes they come from a private secondary market sale. Sometimes they are legitimately bought because the “criminal” has no convictions yet that disqualifies him from making the purchase. Sometimes they are borrowed (with and without permission) from family members. Now if, for example, you provide a gun to someone you know is a felon then you are guilty of being an accessory to his possession as a felon and you can also be prosecuted. And if, for example, you know someone wants to commit a crime with a gun and you provide the gun then you are an accessory to the crimes he later commits with the gun and can be prosecuted. We may even be able to trace a recovered gun to you as the last known purchaser. But you have to consider the difficult reality of convicting someone—with a standard of proof being beyond a reasonable doubt—on a charge of knowingly providing a gun for use in a crime (or to a felon)…. If the proven last purchaser says “oh I haven’t looked at it in years, it must have been stolen out of my glove box without my knowledge—after all I never lock my car at home” (or “hey I had no idea he was a convicted felon and could not have a gun” then you have limited ways to disprove this. The only real way is for the “criminal” to confess he got his gun from the guy you are investigating (and that the provider knew he was going to commit a crime with it or could not have it). Even then, the “criminal’s” confession cannot be used against the gun provider unless the criminal himself testifies. That would require a deal with the devil—giving the murderer a plea deal to get him to testify against his girlfriend who bought him the gun, for example. That’s like giving the drug dealing kingpin a plea deal to testify against a user who bought from him. Absent the straw buyer or other provider confessing that he provided the gun it is almost impossible to prosecute them from providing the murderer the gun. In the end, knowing where the gun likely came from is of limited value to combatting violent crime. Of far greater value to prosecution of a crime is evidence showing the firearm was actually possessed by the suspect of the violent crime—an eyewitness, police finding the gun on someone, touch DNA and/or fingerprints from a dropped gun, etc. Now laws do exist to severely punish gun crime. For example, in my state selling crack cocaine can be punished by 5-40 years in prison. However, because the sentence is not mandatory, the average sentence in my state is 18 months of time actually to serve. That is a function of what judges do through my state. However, it is also a crime to have any firearm while you are dealing, and that crime carries a mandatory 5 year sentence which cannot be suspended. There are other mandatory sentence crimes as well. Possession of a gun by a convicted violent felon is a mandatory 5 year sentence. Using a firearm in any violent crime is an automatic 3 year sentence on top of what you get for the violent crime. I have no problem with mandatory sentences for crimes committed with firearms because the RKBA is not impacted—there is no right to armed criminal violence. These statutes only punish those commit the crimes. The better question you need to ask your local law enforcement leaders is “how are you enforcing these laws?” To hazard a guess, I would say that 90% of all criminal charges nationwide are resolved with a plea agreement. Now don’t get me wrong, there are legitimate needs for plea agreements (for example, say 3 guys conspire to buy a large amount of cocaine, and when they show up with the money the “dealers” rob them and murder two of them. Sometimes you have to make a deal with the surviving buyer over his attempted purchase charge to get him to co-operate as the eyewitness to who shot who). But in my opinion in too many jurisdictions plea deals are the norm, and too many times these deals avoid mandatory punishments. Catch and release is fine—but only for fish. In my experience there are only three things that deter crime: 1. What is the likelihood that I will be seriously injured or killed while attempting this crime, 2. Assuming I’m not seriously injured or killed, then what is the likelihood that I will get caught and arrested, and 3. If caught and arrested, what is the likelihood that I will receive a punishment greater than I am willing to accept. If you are concerned about crime, then the first thing you should do is ask your local elected leaders what they are doing to catch criminals, and what they are doing with them once they have caught them. Ah, a Rosie fan…. “I honestly think - and I am not an expert on the amendments - I think the only people in this nation who should be allowed to own guns are police officers. I don't care if you want to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'sorry'. It is 1999, we have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you should go to prison.”-- Rosie O'Donnell, The Rosie O'Donnell Show, April 21, 1999 Why don’t you tell me how I am a “criminal” merely for possessing a gun. Who knows, you might be able to do a better job than Rosie....
All these ridiculous weapon and drug laws do not help either. People would have more respect for the law if it was actually just—and the only people sent to jail were people who had actually done something morally wrong. What's going to happen when the law is so unjust people finally just loose respect for the law? And the only thing keeping them in line is the fear of consequences. I think there's going to be more criminals.
It is fascinating to me that we as Americans typically respond to a challenge by trying to find a solution. What we typically do not respect is people who give up and will not even explore potential ways to address the problem In this case i hear nothing but rationalization that there is no point in even talking about the problem
if I was in a totalitarian state and wanted a gun, I'd make a spring bow, practice with it, call a cop and take HIS gun. then I'd make a silencer for that pistol and use it to take a rifle from a soldier. then I'd make a silencer for the rifle (or have one already made for it) and use the kit to get the hell out of that country! In the US, I can buy a gun within a day of entering any town that's big enough to have a taxi cab company. All cab drivers know where to find whores, all whores know where to find dope dealers and all dealers know where to find thieves. With a guaranteed (very high price) sale, burglars will go GET a gun for you. It may not be anything great, but it will be serviceable. Be ready to pay $500+ for such a deal, tho, instead of the $200 or so you'd need to buy one that's already in the black market. Better know your guns and testfire it before any serious use, too, cause a lot of the 'street guns" are junk.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html straw purchases and from corrupt FFLs
Being American does not mean continually trying failed programs, and hoping that eventually the outcome will be successful. Eventually one must stop repetition of past efforts, and try something new. You have yet to address any of the points that have already been brought up for consideration. Is it really necessary to point out how many hundreds of millions of firearms are available to the general public today, so many of them unregistered and untraceable, with thousands more being added every day, and how ultimately futile it is to try and reduce that number by any meaningful percentage? Eventually one must admit that a situation has become hopeless, and reached the point where nothing can be done. The level of firearms saturation in the united states has reached and exceeded critical mass, with there now being more firearms than people. It is impossible to even make a dent in that number, as any reduction will quickly be replaced with new stock. Instead of continuing with the tired discussion about restricting access to firearms by those who should not have them, discussion should be focused on why prosecutors routinely drop firearm charges against career criminals, who should not be allowed in the general public where they can do the most harm.
https://gunvictimsaction.org/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-illegal-gun-trafficking-arms-criminals-and-youth/ if the ATF had enough manpower and the tools they needed, they could do some serious damage to the illegal gun business.
The ATF has proven itself to be not only corrupt, but highly inconsistent in its determinations. It is involved in numerous scandals, has lost a number of its own firearms, and has trafficked thousands of firearms across the border in the doomed Fast and Furious program. They have proven their own incompetence too many times to be trusted with any responsibility.
By what constitutional authority would the ATF be operating? Which of the powers of congress supports an ATF?
The department of justice says otherwise. http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf • 39.6% of criminals obtained a gun from a friend or family member • 39.2% of criminals obtained a gun on the street or from an illegal source • 0.7% of criminals purchased a gun at a gun show • 1% of criminals purchased a gun at a flea market • 3.8% of criminals purchased a gun from a pawn shop • 8.3% of criminals actually bought their guns from retail outlets MOD EDIT>>>RULE 2<<<
are you ready to spend another 2k, every year, with all other taxpayers, to lock up the-10 million people that you are talking about locking up for gun possession? there are 5 million ex felons (not on parole. Millions more have dope possession/use that prohibits them owning a gun, or they have a history of domestic abuse, mental health problems, have a dishonorable discharge, etc. So, yes, the total of gun owners removed from the system (if you locked up all who have guns who should not have them) WOULD be 5 million new felony prison inmates, when you currently only have 2 millon prison beds, and only 1 million such beds in county jails. Those charged with felonies have to sit in jail for up to a year while their case is decided (already, folks). Each inmate currently costs taxpayers 30k per year, and then they no longer are paying taxes and most of their families go on welfare. So the net cost to society would be 50k per year, x 5 million people, IF you could somehow find a way to arrest, process and house them. (at all, ha ha). Just because they have a gun that they shouldn't. So where are we to GET that 250 BILLION $ per year and should we waste it in such a manner?
Right now from my brand new 3D printer I just bought. It cost me a pretty penny so help a poor soul pay it off. $400 for smaller handguns, $600 for large caliber ones and $1000 for rifles or shotguns. Yes you could probably buy one cheaper at Wal-Mart but you have that pesky felony so you can't. Which means you can buy from me and get guaranteed quality and a new gun or you can by from some shady drug dealer that might be looking to dump a murder weapon on some other person.
Dissolve the ATF, and turn over duties to other federal agencies that are subject to far greater oversight and regulation. Firearms and explosive duties can go to the FBI, alcohol and tobacco to the DEA. - - - Updated - - - Which does not amount to proof of corrupt federally licensed firearms dealers. So is the anniversary of the Dunblane school massacre. Yet Great Britain is not lifting its ban on handguns simply because of the age of the incident.
the guy who sold me my second gun, runs a place that was earlier shut down by the ATF for straw purchases.
Of course I'm making a point. A point not one of you are really getting. You see yourselves as protectors of the 2nd Amendment, and some of you go to vast extremes to do so. Some even go so far as to threaten war with our own government, which need I remind those people of Article III Section 3 of the United States Constitution? The reality is, no one really wants to take guns away from real law abiding people in this country, we want guns out of the hands of criminals and the criminally insane (you know, the guys who want to start a civil war in this country over gun rights?) When your side goes to such extremes, and then you are taken aback in shock when that exact same extremist mentality is shoved back in your faces as it's been shoved into ours, maybe you start to understand why people think maybe gun control isn't such a bad idea.
So your untruthful sweeping generalization that all gun owners are criminals was intended to make a sweeping generalization about right wingers. Got it.
