U.S. Military Can't Even Fight One War Today

I'm into long range marksmanship, out to 1,000 yards. We finally found a 1,000 yard range out in the Mojave. Usually M-1 Garands and Springfield M-1 A's or my Winchester pre-64 hunting rifle. Open iron sights is the rule.

But I know one guy who was a Marine sniper during the 80's who takes everything into consideration, the wind, temperature, humidity, elevation making mathematical calculation with a calculator.

 

It's all in their DOPE book.

 

Sure is.

 

I still have my dope book from bootcamp.

I just got it out of my cigar box. On the 500 yard line, 19 clicks for my rear sight elevation and 2 clicks right for windage on my M-14.

 

I just looked at the same page for the 300 yard rapid fire, I have 13 clicks elevation and 1 right click for windage.

 

Yea, but you are not famous and your books will never be put up for auction like that one was.

Sadly, my books got lost in one of my many moves over the years.

 

Yeah, I just noticed who's book that belonged too.

I don't want to be that famous.

 

All due to the earths rotation. As ultra long range shooting becomes more accepted in the military, I think it will become more of an issue. Maybe even for some of the whiz bang heavy machine guns in .338 Lapua and .416 barret are researched.

Question about humidity-do you need to account for it in flight with a prop-driven aircraft?

 

In terms of density altitude, humidity is not as much of a factor as temperature and altitude. Where humidity becomes a factor is in engine power. Water vapor reduces the amount of air available for combustion.

 

Another thread update.

Update #2,

April 6, 2016

 

My experience at extreme long range shots is specific to the Barrett .50 Caliber M82.

And believe me if your trying to take out a target at over 1000 Yards a heavy rain will ABSOLUTELY effect that round.

Now a 5.56 round is much smaller and has a lot less mass and will not be effected anywhere NEAR to the same degree a .50 Cal round will be but you must know that dependent upon Atmospheric Pressure and Temp. a round might when taking a very long shot move slightly up or down given heat or cold and humidity.

The effect is a FACT the only thing is the degree of the effect as any mass in motion when impacting other mass will cause Kinetic Energy Transfer.

A Jet Aircraft....and my close friend used to fly F-15C's....when flying at high velocity will SHUDDER when encountering and passing through CLOUDS as the physical mass of the small particulates of dust covered in water ice which is what a cloud is have MASS and this mass does not have continuity in the manner a volume of air has without water in it.

An analogy would be like this....

Imagine being in a pool filled with clear water and another pool has clear 200 Proof Alcohol.

Now if you fire a SPEAR GUN in each pool at a target the pool with the alcohol which is no where near as dense as water will allow the fired spear to move faster and truer toward a distant target.

BUT.....if we take tiny ice cubes that have been geometrically made to be neutrally buoyant in the pool of alcohol so they disperse throughout the pool equally when the SPEAR is fired even though the alcohol allows the spear to travel faster and truer to a distant target in the pool the impact of the spear as it hit's the tiny ice cubes will SLOW AND ALTER the trajectory of the spear.

I am NOT arguing that rain and heavy amounts of water vapor in atmosphere are a big issue in the vast majority of cases of firing upon a target.....I am just stating that as far as the PHYSICS....raindrops and ice or liquid water laden particulates DO have effect upon the trajectory and velocity of a traveling round and the further the distance of the target and the heavier and less aerodynamic the round the greater the effect.

Now anyone can look this up as there is an effect of REVERSE VACUUM DRAG that exists when a round is traveling at high velocity through atmosphere and especially through high water vapor content atmosphere.

When a round is moving through air it creates a PRESSURE WAVE that builds up in front of the round and as the round passes though the atmosphere at high velocity the GREATER THE VELOCITY not only the greater of the build up of the forward pressure wave but as well the greater the creation of a VACUUM BEHIND THE ROUND.

As the round moves quickly it displaces the air in front of it to the sides and as it continues to move the air that it displaces cannot quickly enough move back behind the round where a VACUUM EXIST and when a vacuum is created in this manner it creates DRAG upon the round or aircraft or anything in motion at high velocity.

This is why aircraft that are supersonic not only are pointed at their front to pierce the atmosphere in a manner that allows them to create the smallest forward pressure wave column upon the nose and wings of the aircraft as possible....BUT AS WELL.....supersonic aircraft also have their wings and rear end tail and body TAPERED BACK so that air flow will more easily move over the wind and air-frame and tail and then flow back to a point which greatly decreases the ability of the aircraft to create a Vacuum Drag.

Unfortunately a BULLET which has a tip that is coned or pointed has a FLAT CIRCULAR REAR END....and right now many weapons and ammo manufacturers are attempting to create rifles and cannons which can fire a REAR TAPERED ROUND as such rounds have been tested and not only will travel far greater distances when compared to a similar round that is not rear tapered but as well have the aerodynamics to fly at far greater velocities given the same amount of powder ignited.

AA

 

It's known as the Coriolis Effect and when taking very long range shots it must be accounted for.

AA

 

AN ARMY RANGERS PERSPECTIVE.



This shockwave surrounding the bullet is the result of air being greatly compressed at the front-most tip of the bullet as it slices through the air.

As the bullet moves forward, a broadening wave of compressed air trails out diagonally from the bullet tip.

The sides of the bullet create a conical waveform. Being that the bullet has its own protective cone around it, dispersing air in a cone fashion, water particles will never touch the bullet’s surface as it is deflected by the supersonic shockwave.

The problem lies when the bullet becomes subsonic, or is in the transonic state of flight.

As the bullet transitions from supersonic to subsonic, the “protective cone” around the bullet, starting at the nose, begins to fall back towards the tail of the bullet, thus exposing the bullet to particles in the air.

Recorded data regarding how the rain will affect the bullet has been somewhat difficult to gather due to the fact that the bullet’s performance from supersonic to subsonic is nearly unpredictable.

Snow will act in the same manner as rain, although in snow, the result of lower temperatures must be accounted for.

Nick Irving is a former US Army Ranger sniper with multiple combat deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan. During his service within the 75th Ranger Regiment, Nicholas served as an Assaulter, Heavy and Light Machine Gunner, and Designated Marksman. Irving now owns and operates his training company HardShoot, available to military, law enforcement, civilians, and contractors.

Read the original article on The Loadout Room. LoadOutRoom is affiliated with SOFREP.com, a news site run by former military special ops and intelligence professionals.

LINK....obile.businessinsider.com/an-army-ranger-explains-how-to-fire-precision-shots-in-poor-weather-2014-12

AA

 

This is getting convoluted. Im sure you have experience with the M82, but the rifle is not a great example of a long range precision rifle, its accuracy is mediocre, there are target rifles (bolt action with match .50 cal ammo) that do much better at long range, the lack of accuracy in the Barret means you aren't likely to witness the effects as well as with a more precise gun.

Nobody is arguing about flat base bullets, boat tails are standard for long range and the ultra low drag designs that are coming out now (this is the golden age of long range projos) are examples of this.

As humid air is less dense, this effect will be more noticeable on humid days, all other factors being equal. Another interesting phenomenon is a vapor trail-a cloud that forms for a fraction of a second behind the bullet. Its only seen when conditions are just right, and it is distinct from bullet trace, which can only be seen when tracking near the shooter.

There are many counterintuitive aspects to long range shooting (humidity is case in point). Another is how a bullet deflects due to wind. Wind does not simply "blow" the bullet off course (military manuals show it doing just that), the wind creates a slightly lower pressure to the side of the bullet, and the lower mass of the front of the rotating bullet (10's of thousands of RPM's) turns into the lower pressure area, causing the bullet to "skid' away from the wind.

The real advances in ultra long range shooting are coming from properly stabilizing very low drag bullets, that lose velocity less quickly not only by being "slicker" but also by not wobbling at long range, which is a major cause of drag. Even a small bit adds up at long range.

 

We compensate for air pressure, humidity, wind and rain or snow by the use of software as a Barrett M82 has variants that allow it to be used a tripod and what I prefer the quadropod along with a digital video scope.

It has a Laser Range Finder and a second laser that can determine air density....etc.

And when necessary although hauling this is a serious pain in the ass they come in a robotic form with a CPS which robotically and remotely turns the weapon and raises or lowers it and the CPS is used with a 99 Mag that is too heavy to be carried loaded so the rounds must be carried separate by several men and filled at set up location.

These things are fantastic BUT....they are very difficult to carry and you want a few days lead time to set them up in an area.

Being able to easily move and be mobile is preferable BUT....if you know where things are going down and you only have so many men there weapons can be controlled off site.

AA

 

It's not a matter of can't but won't. Viscerally I love the idea letting loose the Big Red One on ISIS and scattering them to the wind. But intellectually I understand that the terrorist ideology cannot be defeated with bullets and bombs alone. Steam roll them in Syria and they will scatter and coalesce elsewhere. The west has been playing a kind of terrorist wack-a-mole since the 1970's which has done little to curtail Islamic terrorism in general.

We need more than a military option, we need better cooperation between key players who do not seem to all be on the same page. Until the civilized world can all be on the same page I think we are doomed to perpetually play a deadly game of wach-a-mole.

 

The thread isn't about the U.S. military fighting terrorist. As for ISIS, the Obama administration has said they don't have a strategy yet, that's up to Valerie Jarrett and Susan Rice to come up with, The Obama Ehite House doesn't listen to the military.

The thread is about can today's Obama military can fight a real war ? One with either Russia or China.

For the past couple of weeks the military has been testifying before Congress on the readiness of the U.S. military. You'll see the thread starter and two updates (the latest I posted today) and you'll see three different Army generals telling Congress that today we couldn't prevail in a war with Russia or China.

 

First of all neither China nor Russia have any ability with the exception of Nuclear Missiles to invade North America.

So the question must be asked exactly what kind of war under what circumstances are we talking about?

AA

 

Neither China or Russia have any intentions of invading the CONUS.

But that was also true with Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany during WW ll.

 

The conflicts that could spring up would be China attempting to annex islands belonging to other Pacific Nations and of course Russia attempting to annex former Soviet States.

Neither Russia nor China have any real ability other than Nuclear to directly effect the U.S.

And with U.S. Economic Influence neither China or Russia would DARE attempt any large military campaign as to do so would result in the complete collapse of their economies.

I just worry about North Korea.

AA

 

Isn't that already happening ?

 

Yeah but we stopped it.

Putin fully intended to also annex a swath of the Ukraine all along the Northern Black Sea shoreline as this would directly connect Russia to the Crimea and Putin had Spetsnaz set up all along the shore as they were going to create another insurrection.

When we saw this the U.S. and Canada ramped up Oil Production in a big way causing a complete flooding of the worlds oil market and causing oil prices to fall drastically.

The U.S. also controlled the vote of Saudi Arabia at the OPEC Summit as even though there was a massive oil supply and oil prices had fallen Saudi Arabia STILL voted not to decrease oil production.

When Putin saw that happen he removed Spetsnaz out of that area of the Ukraine.

AA

 

China and most likely Russia's strategy with any war with a major power will be A2/AD (Anti-Access/Area Denial)

How does the U.S. Navy and also the Marine Corps, Air Force and the Army plan to deal with A2/AD ???

Well here you'll find nine articles dealing with A2/AD. -> https://news.usni.org/tag/a2ad

 

Well first of all we have no intention of invading Russia or China.

The ONLY way the U.S. would directly engage Russian or Chinese forces is if they attacked or invaded a U.S. Ally.

In that case neither Russia nor China could effectively supply their forces as U.S. Air Power is overwhelming and could EASILY destroy all enemy supply lines.

AA

 

Our generals and admirals see it differently.