Why can't we just admit it out loud?

It is terribly clear to any thinking person in the western world that ISLAM is not a compatible mentality with freedom. As the very basis of western civilization revolves around this freedom I am left to wonder why it is that we are so weak mentality that we cannot just say it out loud. The concept of making women a second class, Hating for religion, resorting to violence when upset, killing those different than yourself....these things are directly opposed to the progress achieved in the west. One need only examine the middle eastern Islamic nations to see what Islam has wrought.

So...My question..

Why can't I just say Islam is bad for us?

 

OTHER: we can't admit that one Abrahamic faith is evil because the other Abrahamic faiths are so very similar to it, at least so similar in their rejection of science, their hatred of gays, their immoral beliefs, their hatred of women, etc. So belief in Jesus is helping to keep us from winning this war.

Actually, the Christian texts approve of way way MORE cruelty and violence than, get this, than even the Qur'an does! Incredible.
Number of Cruel or Violent Passages:
Bible 1321
Quran 532

Too bad Jesus isn't actually real, or if he loved us he would of course have come down in the last 2000 years and told us which Abrahamic faith (or which religion in general) is the real true one, and which ones are just harmful con-jobs. Too bad he doesn't care about us enough to do that.

 

One of the best posts this month on the entire forum, as you and I both know the answer to that question is "because if we say that Islam is bad for us then we'll get into debating the Abrahamic faiths - and the average person doesn't want that because they don't want THEIR OWN religion's nonsense to be questioned." After all, they believe in a talking snake, so scrutiny is the LAST thing they want!

 

You'll actually start a chain that way, where it's not just the Abrahamic faiths that get challenged but all religions. So long as all we are doing is talking amongst ourselves, this conversation might be productive, but it probably would not stop with just talk. People would start demanding laws, and you would have a genuine slippery slope on our hands.

People of any particular faith don't want to be equated to the worst actors in that faith either.

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The idea that Islam and west are irreconcilable is one of the driving ideas in keeping the Islamic world from approaching the west. Religions are flexible, Christians eat shellfish, Confucians disregard their parents and so on. People have been bending their religions to their will for ages, and it is not very likely that they will stop. However, tell someone they are the problem and denounce them as evil (and throw in some measure of literal war) and you've most likely just shut down the entire debate. If you construct a dichotomy between Islam and the west, most muslims will turn away from the west, even though they could have exercised the flexibility of their religion. Sure, they probably won't become metropolitan human rights lawyers, but there's no point in supplying ISIS recruiters with arguments.

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you act like someone is your enemy, it's not unlikely that they will become your enemy.

 

Oh yes it's our fault Muslims blow everyone up that disagrees with them.

 

Maybe, put foreigners don't pay their taxes properly. They are sneaky bastards, so we should keep them out for not contributing their fair share toward new multi-lingual "Keep Off The Grass" signs

 

They dont just blow people up, they also rape women, stone women who claim to have been raped, behead children, throw gays off rooftops, set innocent people on fire, cut their hands off, and lately dunk them slowly in nitric acid.

 

Well, you will notice that what I wrote is quite compatible with blaming people who blow others up (they weren't really in a position to approach the west anyway, or at least the process would be different). I only attack the idea of lumping muslims who blow people up together with muslims who don't blow people up.

The argument you made could just as well have been made about humans in general, and I don't see that as a valid argument against humanity as a whole, do you?

 

I think not paying your taxes is an issue regardless of whether you're a foreigner (depending on where this conversation goes, some issue might arise between the debate about muslims and the debate about foreigners). Is it so hard to say "not paying your taxes is bad" without accidentally saying "foreigners not paying taxes is bad"?

 

What is a thinking person if not one that you agree with or otherwise thinks like you?

Do you perceive the above negatives as being limited to some Muslims or does the above apply to all Muslims?

As none of us can speak for you, you tell us.

 

Okay...Islam is a religion of violence and subjugation that cannot be expected to fit into a society based on peace and freedom. It is therefore incompatible with the western world and should be considered a threat. As it is not possible to separate the Muslims that want to kill you from the ones who are peaceful they are all subject to distrust.

Christianity is not much better but is far less violent.

 

Sure, but it seems confined to native rich people like naked survivor dude, Wesley Snipes, MC Hammer and Melissa Harris-Perry so statistically insignificant even if tabloid juicy....

I find foreigners not paying their taxes is more offensive to me. At least MC Hammer boosted puffy pants sales for awhile, so that is a societal benefit at least.

 

Not sure what you mean.

Hm, I guess we disagree.

 

Lots of people under pay their taxes just out of absent-mindedness. It is not worth the cost for the IRS to come after you because you forgot to include the interest on your savings account in your income, so they don't bother. They focus on the big fish who clearly owe tons of money.

Yep, including on whether or not mustaches are acceptable these days. I have just spoken with too many people who have done business with foreign-born business owners to believe that tax evading is incidental and not systemic part of that community.

 

Nice little prophetic prophecy. Shame you constructed it on a one way street.

 

I agree fully, what does that have to do with immigration or muslims?

If you find someone who you can show is tax evading, I see no problem with coming down on them, and that is as true with foreign businesses as domestic ones.

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I'm not sure I understand, could you elaborate please?

 

I LOVE to find an honest Islamophobe....but most still try to cover their bigotry with some "Hey, I'm not saying that" CYA.


For instance, given the "dangers of Islam" (their words), do they support banning the religion in the United States?

Do they support deporting anyone who is a Muslim....even if a citizen, or a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc generation citizen?

Is that enough...or do we need to go out into the world and destroy Islam world-wide, due to the "threat it poses to the United States"?

If not (to any of those questions)...why not? Do they not believe their own rhetoric?

 

In other words they KNOW those religions are not really from an all-knowing entity, so they don't actually follow those religions as written.

 

Oh, so apparently many Muslims have a DIFFERENT Qur'an than the terrorists have? A kinder, gentler version, where the "kill them where you find them", and implying to harm gays, wording has been fortunately purged, in an effort to create a more loving world? Great! I thought that Muslims didn't care enough about the world to create such a document....guess I was wrong, huh?

 

For most practical purposes, yes, although in theory, it's probably more that above their texts, they believe their beliefs make sense, so when stuff isn't making sense, they think they've misunderstood it rather than it being wrong. That doesn't particularly make it better, but it teaches us something for when we have to deal with it.

 

Now. It is far less violent now that it has been defanged by the Enlightenment. John Calvin had a man burned at the stake with a crown of sulfur for saying that Jesus was created by God. Hardly better than an ISIS thug. And we all know about the horrors committed under Catholic rule. Despite teachings that I would consider incompatible with Western Enlightenment, Christians have managed to embrace Enlightenment values. As have most of my Muslim friends, coworkers and neighbors, regardless of what their scriptures say. It is a fine line: we should certainly speak out against barbaric doctrines, but we also shouldn't feed "we can't coexist" diatribe.

 

And what is your point exactly? Now is the only time that matters. Not (*)(*)(*)(*)ing 100s of years ago. Should I go start punching Italians because their Roman ancestors enslaved my German, British ancestors? Seriously, how (*)(*)(*)(*)ing difficult is it to admit that there is only ONE religion today that world wide in every single country that it dominates in or even has a sizable majority is running around killing gays, subjugating women and treating them as cattle and where most of the population hold MAJORITY view that leaving the faith should be punishable by death.

If you don't call out Islam for what it is today then you are actively defending an ideology that denigrates women and minority groups. You are actively helping to shield Islam. Islam needs a reformation and it isn't going to happen when a bunch of idiot leftists constantly defend its barbarism.

 

No.

If you see someone proposing that, let me know. I'm not sure how you got to that particular tangent.

How difficult is it to admit that other religions used to behave the same way, and that they overcame it, and that most Muslims have overcome it as well?

Please drop the straw man.

That is exactly what I implied in my last post -- other religions have reformed, many Muslims have already reformed, so pretending that there is no hope for Islam's reformation is ludicrous and continuing to claim that Islam and Enlightenment values are incompatible is only helping to spread the mission of thugs like ISIS.

I'm not a leftist, please drop the personal attacks, and I am not defending barbarism of any kind; in the post you responded to, I specifically said that we should confront barbarous doctrines. If you would like to address anything I have actually said, I'm up for it. If you want to continue attacking an imaginary opponent who is proposing this things, be my guest.

 

The reality which is undeniable would be that Islam TODAY is going through a very dangerous and disgusting growth spurt that has created great fear in non-Muslims. The fanatics within it have taken advantage of both geography and compassion by using other religions to protect itself before they kill. When someone is commanded to wipe you out and sneaks into your house poising as a friend, you can either distrust and guard or bend over an die.

Unfortunately this means many friends get blamed and mistreated because of that guy that wants you dead.....unless these friends can convince you they are safe. Making a couple YouTube videos is NOT convincing.