Looks Like NAFTA Is Coming To An End

The refiners want to replace imported Venezuela heavy oil brought in by tanker with Canadian heavy oil brought in by pipeline.

 

I know, but they can refine Canadian oil into specialty product, sell it abroad for higher prices and not pay taxes.

 

Canada is increasing the capacity of the Trans Mountain Pipeline from Aberta to Vancouver and will sell oil to Asia if they face quotas and tariffs from America.

 

No, we don't have enough good quality lumber. Builders want fur not pine.

No international trade tribunal has ever sided with those in the U.S. who say Canadian lumber is subsidized.

 

International trade tribunals are like the UN, anti America. The Pacific Northwest has plenty of Douglas fir but it's mostly owned by the feds and they sell it to the highest bidder if they log it at all. Canada gives timber sales to it's loggers so right there it's non competitive. Add to that our strict environmental regulations that add to the cost of logging as opposed to Canada still doing clear cuts to the waters edge and it's even harder for America to compete. We not only have the timber, we are actually over stocked with 200 trees per acre instead of the historical 20 trees per acre. This is due to a hundred years of effective fire suppression.

 

Yes. I think that's what they will do.

Dakota Access has had four oil spills this year.

 

What's your point? Transporting oil by pipeline is both safer and less costly than bringing it in by oil tanker.

 

Just what needs.
More globalism.

reply should be either,
1) You and what army
or
2) Trade here or trade elsewhere. Your choice.


Moi

r > g

Now More Than Ever​

 

Oh, please.

Even assuming you're right (and I'm not saying you are), how does that mean Canadian lumber is subsidized?

Canada sells lumber from its forests to producers. No tribunal outside the U.S. has sided with the U.S. argument this is unfair to U.S. producers.

Since when are U.S. regulations an excuse to put tariffs on Canadian lumber?

I'm sure you'll be happy to hear Canada increasingly sells its lumber to Asia.

 

I didn't say anything about tankers.. I was talking about the benefits of free trade zones.. None of those products will be sold on the domestic market.

 

Pipelines are still the safest way to transport oil. What's your point?

 

China can manufacture solar panels and wind turbines cheaper than western countries. So what? They also burn more coal than any other country and they are still building more coal plants.

 

Perhaps pipelines in the US have special problems that I am unaware of.

 

More from
mad as hell and not gonna take it any more

They are trying to take down Boeing!

http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/is-it-true-part-deux.495478/page-8#post-1068394966

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-takes-aim-boeing-over-230138330.html

Tell Moi that ain't so!

 

That's what Canada is doing. There's some dirt people won't eat.

 

Well, I heard Bill Clinton voice that if he had known what NAFTA would have created for working americans, he would have never signed it. I say he is smart enough to have known what the outcome of NAFTA was to be, when he signed it. And in order to feed from the same campaign financing , slop buckets as the GOP, given unions were becoming poorer and losing power, he had to sign NAFTA for that was what the rich special interests, especially the wall street banks, wanted.

You know, americans were sold a lie, that america could not continue to be prosperous, if we did not compete with slave labor, which meant that indeed our workers would starve if we did, but this was an excuse to offshore our consumer good production and even some of our service sector, with low wage service sector jobs taking the place of living wage jobs. That this looks to be insanity and is, could have been seen by clinton back in the 90s. He knew what it would do to working people and like the democrats of today, could not care less. All that mattered was getting campaigns financed by those elites who demanded to be paid back, with a fat return on their investment in the election. I don't see how anyone could with honesty deny this.

 

Not that I've heard.

Would you rather have oil coming by tanker to the Gulf Coast and Canadian oil leaving by tanker past the Puget Sound or transported down Keystone?

 

I'd just like to see Keystone have a better safety record. Most places have computerized central monitoring for flow rate and pressure.

 

Yes...there was one in SDak here not long ago, not far from where I'm at.

 

Correct, but you do need NAFTA to get access to the slave labor rates in Mexico in order to max out MNC profits. Canada is different in that they do not offer slave labor to our MNCs. So normal trade with Canada is all that is needed. I heard someone say canada runs a trade deficit with the US. If so this had got to be the only nation we have free trade deals with who run deficits!! We generally run the trade deficits with the slave labor nations where our MNCs have moved our factories, which make the goods we buy at walmart, as they are parasites on the american economy.

That some americans think exploiting the poor of other nations in order to max out MNC profits, which hollowed our our industrial based economic model, and began the rush to the bottom in wages for working americans is a good thing makes you wonder about what kind of values these people have. My money says that the people who agree with slave labor globalism, are not as apt to be affected badly by it, just like our elites are not affected badly by it, but get richer from it. So, what happens to your fellow americans, a rise in poverty numbers, non living wage jobs taking the place of living wage jobs, the war on our middle class, makes no difference to these faux liberal dems. If you want them to be concerned with average working americans regardless of color, you can forget about that. It is nothing more than an attitude of, " I am in a field which is safe, I make a good middle class living, and those americans who are not in my position?" " Well they can go and fu*k themselves for I could not care less about anyone but the illegal aliens being given citizenship, about the gratification from hating trump, and forcing americans to use the 78 new gender pronouns, under threat of fines, and job loss" "And anyways, these working americans being devastated by the exploitation of the poor, are probably mostly white, and they do not matter, and perhaps it is good for them to not be paid living wages for their work. " They need to be punished by being white.

 

Bubba Clinton should have listened. But, he was the first Liar In Chief before Obama.

I voted for each, once and both lied to me..​

Instead he served Wall St. interest and not the interests of Main St.

https://personalliberty.com/nafta-created-giant-sucking-sound-perot-warned/
Remember these words? "Giant Sucking Sound". (No sex robots aren't that good, yet) http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/sex-robot.523429/page-5#post-1068533583
Independent presidential candidate Ross Perot warned in his high-pitched voice during the 1992 election that if NAFTA passed Americans would hear “a giant sucking sound” of American companies fleeing the United States for Mexico, where employees would work for slave wages.



Certainly makes sense but media, power people just laughed at them while Bubba denied it.
Whose agenda do they follow or was it the source? Not a RepubloCrat serving Wall St.


The Clintons are liars.
What part do I have incorrect.
Al Franken should not have resigned. He was the next Bernie Sanders.
Schtick humor was his profession. He was known for "hands across the aisle" successes.


<sigh>
All Power To The Liars!

 

And that is why I voted for Perot. For he had the common sense to understand what this trade deal and any future trade deals would do which included the move of our production to other nations who could offer MNCs slave labor costs. Which shows up directly on the bottom line of the P and L, of course.

And both Clinton and Bush Sr( Bush was trying to get NAFTA signed before he left office) knew exactly what the effect would be on the american worker and could not have cared less. They knew they were reversing what our Founders had put into place to protect our economy and our people from slave labor. And it was not slave labor globalism that created a most powerful america in the first place. For it would have never created the america who won ww2. Slave labor globalism does not create large middle classes either. What the founders instituted with trade, and americans making our consumption is what created history's largest middle class at least in part. And what created an america which became an empire post ww2.

 

Who'se army? Our army of invisible operatives moving freely amongst your population. We are way too smart for a frontal military attack - we'd get crushed. Nope we got a way better plan.

As for trading elsewhere, thanks we are and will do lots more if necessary. Can you imagine how much stronger america will be when we are shipping a few million barrels of oil to china each day?

Our strategy of death by a gazillion cuts will prevail. Now please stop talking about this. It might alert a smart authority who will investigate. Our plan is wholly dependent on stealth and penetration.

 

I've had this conversation with moi621 before....I don't think the account knows where canada is or was ever in canada.

 

Who says some of it, maybe even all of it as the shale boom peters out, won't be sold here? In any event, are we prepared to write off the Gulf Coast refineries if we're not going to refine product there that we get from somewhere?