Abortion is permitted.. and according to the Koran it is forbidden to kill Christians or Jews or pagans unless they make war on Muslims. The rules in Islam concerning slaves is that Allah smiles when a slave is freed... and children born of a slave woman by a free man have all rights to their fathers that his legitimate offspring have.
Islam is riddled with contradictions, this is why it is so easy to cultivate terrorists, while many mosques, and Muslims themselves, will condemn acts of violence, a slick talking Cleric, Iman, etc. can show you in writing where it is ordered. I can show you at least 3 different versions of what happened to Muhammeds money when he died. I can also show you a half dozen of who built the Kab'ba.
The Meccan Qur'an speaks kindly of the Jews, but you have to realize he was taken in by them, when he was tossed out of Mecca. The Medina Qur'an condemns them. The sunnah gets a little more descriptive.
The Kabba story is lost in myth.. Some think Adam and Eve laid the first stones when they were reunited and forgiven after 130 years. Other myths include Eve's burial in Jedda. Some think Abraham and Ishmael built the first altar. Have you spoken with Muslim clerics, slick talking or otherwise? Kafir Arabic for "Infidel", not "Christian" or "Jew" or "Hindu" or any specific group of people. Typically a derogatory term used to refer to a non-believer who has malevolent intentions towards Islam and Muslims. It's amazing how many idiot kafirs write dumbass definitions regarding Islam, but know absolutely nothing about it.
BTW, You are one of the few Muslims I encountered who uses Shakir, Kudos to you. Most I speak with, use Noble, or Yousaf Ali.
T The Meccan Koran and the Medina Koran are Western constructs. Actually a small group of Muslims went to East Africa during that period.. for sanctuary with the Christian king. That's probably why Muhammed became the protector of the Christians of Najran and waived Jizya.
The Kab'bs were there long befor Islam, and a product of the Rock Gods. They were in the marketplaces of all the settlements. The 5 pillars were already in place. The custodian and family profited from it. Bronze age televangelists. Luhayy brought the practice of praying to stones, 80 years later Qysayy's grandfather conquered Mecca from the Kuddas, ( Bad spelling), who conquered the Juriman. Qusayy then purchased the custodianship of the Kab'ba. Tabari VI:21 "Qusayy purchased the custodianship of the Ka'aba for a skin full of wine and a lute." Music and booze for Islam's holiest site. Muhammed was adopted into the Qusayy family, and had no right to inherit it.
That's not correct, look in the beginning of your Qur'an , and you will see the separation. The Medina abrogates the Meccan. Check the chronology. Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Samura: The Prophet said, "O 'Abdur-Rahman! Do not seek to be a ruler, for if you are given authority on your demand then you will be held responsible for it, but if you are given it without asking (for it), then you will be helped (by Allah) in it. If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better." Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260
I have to go right now, but it has been a pleasure speaking with you. I want to point out I don't mean to be disrespectful, but wish to exchange thoughts, and use the original documents for reference. Looking forwards to our next talk.
Tabari was from northern Persia 250 years after Muhammed. When you say rock gods are you talking about meteorites? Most tribes carried their gods with them from place to place on a litter and usually it was a piece of a meteor.
Tabari was from northern Persia 250 years after Muhammed. When you say rock gods are you talking about meteorites? Most tribes carried their gods with them from place to place on a litter and usually it was a piece of a meteor.
This is the main problem with Islam. The first 100 years is a black hole, from which nothing emerges. The Sirat Rasual allah, by Ibn Ishaq, also called Ishaq's Sira. is the first written doc. 125 years after,, however 4/5th of it was lost for "Matters that would distress people". It was rewritten by Ibn Hussin 60 years later. Then The history of Al Taburi. After that we have Bukhari. After that Muslim. I would have to look up these exact dates. The first fragments of Qur'an show up 100 years later, and the first complete Qur'an 300 years late. The Qur'an is plagarized from Judism, Christianity, Zoeastranism and Greek medical. Also we have writings from "the companions of Muhammed", however these are written between the 10th and 12th century. Islam is a product of the 9th and 10th century, not the 7th as is claimed.
Funny you bring up northern Persia. One theory is that Islam was developed in the Bagdad area. The Kab'bas held rocks that represented their Gods, at one time 360 of them. The main god was Hubal. The sun God, married the Moon God,( Allah), they had 3 daughters Alusna, al lat, and manot, ( all are spelled wrong). These three were the main God's at lesser Kab'bas. The Kab'bastone is suspected as being a meteorite. It was Muhammed who combined all the Gods into one, that one was Ar Ramon. Allah shoes up over halfway through the Qur'an, except for the 4 line verse preceding each sura.
There are no originals, but these are closer to the source than anything else. When you read about Islam, most of what you read is 10 to 12th century, with only these originals to feed from. That's probably why there are so many different sects and theories.
I don't understand the question, where? I just told you, my knowledge was obtained over the course of decades. Being an autodidact is an essential professional skill in any dynamic career environment. It also empowers me to pursue any of my many varied interests and whims on a personal level. You'll have to ask the question with more concision if that is an insufficient answer.
You have in the messenger a beautiful pattern of conduct to follow. ( Qur'an) Muhammed is not in the Qur'an, mentioned 4 times, and at least 3 could be someone else. The Sirat rasuall Allah is the only biography of muhammed written within 200 years of his lifetime. Taburi covers much of the same, sometimes getting further in depth. There is no other source on the planet, as close to the time frame. Iman Bukhari collected 900,000 hadieths and used aprox only 7000 in his book, over 300 years later, indicating there was a whole lot of bulls--tting going on. Muslim, was a student of Bukhari.
I am also aware of the dearth of archaeological evidence in both pagan arabia, and of mo's early life and rise. His bio is just like Jesus' bio. I refer to it as "received mythology". I violently agree that there was a whole lot of bullshit going on. It was all about power and riches, and in medieval arabia like everywhere else on the planet there was all kinds of nasty ignorant bullshit going on.
Muslim was a real person, and the student of Iman Bukhari. He wrote the book Muslim. An accepted part of the Sunnah. Sunni Muslims claim, when convenient, they follow only Bakhari and Muslim.
Bukhari was in his 90s before he related the hadiths.. How and when did you become interested in becoming an expert on Islam?
Another interesting point to ponder is that muslims claim they have a genelogy record from Ishmael to Muhammed. Yes, Sunni's do also, even though this info is from Ibn Ishaq. The Sirat Rasual Allah. We have fabricated names for 40 generations spanning about 3000 years. A closer estimate would be 133 generations. The problems here are many. There is no record to Islam, muslims, Qur'an, Muhammed, etc. prior to the 8th/9th century. Why would Muhammed have records, and nobody else, he was a nobody, an orphan, almost died at birth, adopted into the Qusayy family. He was tossed out of town. What were they written on. what language were they written in. Everybody was illiterate. Where are they now.Mecca had 2 tribes owning the place, and was uninhabited prior the 4th century. The Jews have original documents from 1000 BCE. Islam has nothing, prior 8th/9th, century. What we have here is a total fabrication of names and dates. Something that comes up a lot in Islam.
I am by no means an Islamic scholar, But I do know my way around the religion, enough to discuss with the best of them, whatever I can't say off the top of my head, I can look up, I have all the books. My studies are from 400 years prior Muhammed, all through his life and shortly after his death. I have delved in many other parts. Religions have always been a hobby of mine since the 60s. I got into Islam when 9/11 happened. I already had Taburi, all 40 volumes, in my library for years, but never read them until 9/11. Iman Bukhari traveled the area extensively collecting Hadieths, and compiled them into a book, a process that would take most of his life, Unlikely he lived untill 90 in the desert sands. He also had his student, Muslim.
