Malaysian Muslim man marries 11-year-old Thai girl

I put up an utterly MASSIVE painting of the Saudi King in public, and pictures indoors disputing your lousy youtube source.

And you claimed it was primitive.
I just put up that their abstract art is complex.



Fake news all the way.

 

They spend hundred of years making christian pay the jizyah, they got what they deserved. Forcing people to give money while threatening them to kill them if they don't pay, that's the definition of racket. Furthermore, the conquest of Spain didn't go victimless neither.

Don't want to die when someone take back his land ? Don't invade it.

I could argue that we don't know how many victims made the Ummayad and notice too that if WW2 made a lot of victims, the war who killed the biggest proportion of people on earth was probably Gengish Khan. However, the evil is to slaughter people, it doesn't really matter under what flag it was. Even if I still despise islamic civilization for being a threat to western one.

'

Highly depend what do you call the "west", because I don't consider Poland or Hungary as the west.

Source ? Furthermore, you speak of the guys who were sacrificing people ?

Yes, what happened in South America was a drama, and what happend in India too.

Europeans didn't invented the concept of weapon, ottomans were well known for producing arquebus and cannon (the first was invented by euros, the later by chinese). About the nuclear bomb, Einstein understood it was a consequence of his discoveries. He didn't choose to discover that, but it's what he discover. Then the americans had the choice, either they had it first or the nazi had it first.
About Hiroshima Nagasaki, they were horrible events, but first it's japanese who attacked american, and second it spared to american a long conquest campaign of Japan who would have caused a lot of casualties of american. What the american owned to japanese to have to sacrifice so many people in a conquest campaign ? Nothing.
Furthermore, since nuclear bombs, there is considerably less war since WW2, there is still a lot, but less. Nuclear bombs enabled peace and prevented an open war between Russia and the USA. I red a long time ago, that despite the unfamous war in Irak and Afghanistan (which are two separate matters), the decade 2000 2010 was the one with the less victims of war since a lot of time. Unfortunately, I didn't found back the article, probably because I red it on a paper newspapers.

It's not an islamophobic rant, it's a hadith. Furthermore none of you source called this hadith false, if I remember well one pretended that this hadith was a prediction not a prescription. Furthermore, your source is one interpretations among other.

Those wars don't do anything for the greater good, but they think it help for the greater good. There is a lot of instances of that.
For instance, some people defended the brutality toward native american by the fact of preventing cannibalism and human sacrifices. The controversy of Valladolid was very interesting on that point :

On some point, history of Europe looks a lot like a constant valladolid controversy, but often the Sepulveda stay the most powerfull.
Peacefull christianity didn't disappeared after Constantin rise to power, but clearly, it was never the one in power. Even if there is some interesting passages, for instance the slavery abolishment in France in 1315 and the fact that slavery disappeared. In 1430, the pope threatened of excommunication the spanish who were mistreating the inhabitants of canary island and ordered them to free them. Christophus Colombus was disgraced because of his behaviour toward native american.
Colonization of south america was made by mercenaries, which are people violent by nature.

There were important christian communities through Europe before. Yes, Europe became only christian through violence. Islam used a lot of violence too. Jizyah is basically racket, apostate were sentenced to death, so once you was converted to Islam, there were no way to go back, and anyone born from a muslim father was considered muslim. Among the martys of Cordoba, some christian were killed because their father were muslim, and even if they were always christian, they were consider apostate.
In a way, the Jizyah/Dhimmi is a smart way to convert entire populations to a religion, it's still a violent oppression of the conquered people.

What's "normal" conquest ?

Yes. A lot of knowledge was lost, I agree, but dropped no. A lot of texts were kept in monasteries too and we kept some roman and greek knowledge through centuries thanks to the christian monks.Furthermore, I said it, most of the knowledge wasn't in the european part of the roman empire, but in Syria and Egypt, regions muslims conquered. In a way, it's muslims who created Europe. Before the muslims invasions, a roman citizen felt closer from someone for instance living in Palmyra in Syria than someone in nowodays Denmark. Syria gave the great roman emperor Severus to the roman empire.
Furthermore, we're speaking only of the catholic part of Europe. The eastern roman empire of Constantinoples never dropped the greek and roman knowledge. But Gauls, Britanny were always very rural part of Europe, when the rest wasn't.

Not really. At the opposite of Saudi Arabia, it's not about all religions, it's about one specifically, in that case Islam. In Quran 1/191, they're calling people who do fitnah (disbelief) worse than murdered. Why should we accept people calling us worse than murderer ?
The presence of mosques gave us only terror attacks, when countries who didn't accepted muslims didn't got terror attacks.

They had the choice. Furthermore, don't invade people and be surprized to get the backlash.

The distance between Norway and Iceland is much smaller than the distance between Spain and Americas. Don't forget that most maps make looks the far north and far south much bigger it looks, groenland is roughly as big than Madagascar for instance. But yes, vikings were amazing navigators. Chinese too, there is a possibility that they reached america once too, but at the opposite of vikings, there is no real proof of that.

And I sourced it's rather important. Furthermore, olderst working clocks are all in Europe (most important in Prague and Rouen). There is a good article on that, on a rather serious website :

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=1244

I never claimed that, I spoke of mechanical clocks. A good text, the important improvements made in european middle age is part 2 :
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=2322&HistoryID=ac08&gtrack=pthc

Go on, quote me, quote where I wrote that, because I never pretended that. I spoke of glasses, which was most of my sources said, you quoted a poem that could make reasonnably think that it existed before outside of Europe.

I will quote the passage where I mention glasses the first :

So you're basically inventing things I never said.

Yes, and Saudi arabia stopped slavery in 1962 and Mauritania in 1975. I think that selling people as slaves is worse than segregration.

Yes, most christian countries. Like not any south america countries, not russia, no eastern europe countries but Ukraine, not France, not Germany, just basically the majority of christian nations. Congratulations for your definition of "most". So basically, most countries if you don't consider 90 % of them. That's not even most european countries.

 

@notme

Sources mentionning christian, except that a part of my family belong to the people mentionned in the quran 9/5 :
slay those who associate others with Allah in His Divinity wherever you find them; seize them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them.

And, yes, I'm used to the excuses "by the way the quran don't actually mean what it means when it says to slay people when it says slay people"
Furthermore, for the christian part of my family, I have no wish to see them pay jizyah.

Woah, should it mean that there is different intepretations of Islam ? Incredible.
Furthermore, things are changing in a very fast way. For instance, Saudi Arabia is opening movie theaters after a 35 years ban. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-movie-theaters.html
And what's a movie if not 24 pictures per seconds ?

Saudi Arabia kings have an opening policy for some years.

There is no kings of salafis, salafi is a way to consider Islam by trying to imitate in every way the first muslims, mostly Muhammed but not only.

quote]You claimed it is forbidden according to the Koran. I disproved that by showing the King of the most deeply devoted Muslim nation does none of that.[/QUOTE]

Most deeply devoted muslim nations who forbid slavery in 1962, it must explain that. It can explain too why 2500 saudis fought with ISIS, the second biggest foreign fighters division of ISIS (I made a mistake saying it was the first one, first one is Tunisia.
Furthermore, I never pretented it was forbidden according to the quran, but according to the hadith. Which isn't the same, the quran is the word of god, hadith no, but hadith are still the basis of islam.

Here is two Sahih Bukhari hadith about your prophet :
It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back from a journey and I had placed a curtain of mine that had pictures on it over (the door of) a room of mine. When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw it, he tore it and said, ‘The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allaah’s creation.’ So we turned it (the curtain) into one or two cushions.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 549.

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: “I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be the image-makers.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 5494).

And what is a hadith :
Ḥadīth (/ˈhædɪθ/[1] or /hɑːˈdiːθ/;[2] Arabic: حديث‎ ḥadīth Arabic pronunciation: [ħadiːθ], pl. Aḥādīth, أحاديث, ʼaḥādīth[3] Arabic pronunciation: [ʔaħadiːθ], also "Traditions") in Islam refers to the record of the words, actions, and the silent approval, of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Within Islam the authority of Ḥadīth as a source for religious law and moral guidance ranks second only to that of the Qur'an (which Muslims hold to be the word of Allah revealed to his messenger Muhammad).

Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), also known as Bukhari Sharif (Arabic: بخاري شريف‎), is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. These prophetic traditions, or hadith, were collected by the Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari, after being transmitted orally for generations. It was completed around 846/232 AH. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the two most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim, yet not generally infallible.[1][2] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[3] Sahih al-Bukhari, together with Sahih Muslim is known as Sahihayn.

I'm not quoting any islamophobic source, I'm quoting one of the most trusted source of Islam and by the way, either when I quote a hadith or a quran verse, I do it from an islamic website.

They got the 60 millions number by adding up the numbers of people where the poll were but that poll wasn't on the whole islamic world. So there is not 60 millions people supporting Islam, there is at least 60 millions people supporting ISIS but there is probably much more because they polled an important part of the islamic world, but they forgot a lot of countries like all north africa.
Furthermore, Al Qaeda and ISIS are war at each other, however both of them are violent. So among the people who had a poor opinion of ISIS, there were maybe Al Qaeda supporters.

I speak of representative art. I don't deny the beauty or the complexity of islamic art, when I said it was primitive, I spoke about traditionnal representative islamic art even if I must admit I was surprized of some things I saw during my search and much less impressed by the rest.

I quoted you two sahih bukhari source, and you have no authority to consider Sahih Bukhari as something irrelevant, it's one, if not the most trusted hadith collection islam had with sahih muslim. It's second to the quran in term of authority. Your picture is nothing compared to an islamic sacred text.

I clearly showed that there is a deep picturephobic trend in Islam.
Typically, though not entirely, Islamic art has focused on the depiction of patterns, whether purely geometric or floral, and Arabic calligraphy, rather than on figures, because it is feared by many Muslims that the depiction of the human form is idolatry[13] and thereby a sin against God, forbidden in the Qur'an. (Note Idolatry is forbidden in the quran, muslims who consider music and painting as haram base themselves on hadith).

I know no other religions where some people consider music and painting as a bad thing. The topic of the paintings may be controversial, but never the fact of painting itself.

 

@notme More about the importance of the middle age european clockmakers :
The verge (or crown wheel) escapement is the earliest known type of mechanical escapement, the mechanism in a mechanical clock that controls its rate by allowing the gear train to advance at regular intervals or 'ticks'. Its origin is unknown. Verge escapements were used from the 14th century until the mid 19th century in clocks and pocketwatches. The name verge comes from the Latin virga, meaning stick or rod.[1]

Its invention is important in the history of technology, because it made possible the development of all-mechanical clocks. This caused a shift from measuring time by continuous processes, such as the flow of liquid in water clocks, to repetitive, oscillatory processes, such as the swing of pendulums, which had the potential to be more accurate.[2][3] Oscillating timekeepers are used in all modern timepiec

The verge escapement dates from 13th-century Europe, where its invention led to the development of the first all-mechanical clocks.[3][5][6]Starting in the 13th century, large tower clocks were built in European town squares, cathedrals, and monasteries. They kept time by using the verge escapement to drive the foliot, a primitive type of balance wheel, causing it to oscillate back and forth. The foliot was a horizontal bar with weights on the ends, and the rate of the clock could be adjusted by sliding the weights in or out on the bar.

A minor european invention is the hourglasses : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hourglass
It's possible the hourglass existed during antiquity, but the invention was lost, and it was invented back in Europe.

The neume which the ancestors of the nowodays music notation used everywhere in the world was invented in Europe too.

Petrus Peregrinus de Maricourt (Latin), Pierre Pelerin de Maricourt (French), or Peter Peregrinus of Maricourt[1] (fl. 1269), was a 13th-century French scholar who conducted experiments on magnetism and wrote the first extant treatise describing the properties of magnets. His work is particularly noted for containing the earliest detailed discussion of freely pivoting compass needles, a fundamental component of the dry compass soon to appear in medieval navigation.[2][3][4] He also wrote a treatise on the construction and use of a universal astrolabe.

Compass were invented by chinese, dry compass by european.

Watermarks were invented in Europe too.

That's a lot for the primitive barbarian you implied medieval middle age was.

 

It's nowhere near forced conversion or get killed like the Christians did. And...the heck it is. It comes with an entire list of exceptions. It was even alright if you could not pay. And it was a taxsystem installed because they were exempt to join the army. And so paid taxes to be protected by Muslims who gave their lives for their safety. If a non muslim joined the army, he got exempted from Jizyah.

Talking about Americans who got blown up in Iraq, or Hamas killing the Jews in Israel?

And with what you came up with vs what I came up with... Christians started the biggest one.

It says EU, and I don't care what you think is part of what.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan

The west still invented industrialized mass murder, and atomic bombs.

Your islamophobic interpretation is false. I proved that.

That is just sweet talking genocide. I'm absolutely not impressed.

And that is why you lost the debate

source?

And previously the same far right,.. massacred the Jews.

It still is that the number is just in Spain,.. not world wide.

It still takes... a seaworthy ship.

It still is... they didn't invent the clock. Just a spring.

And them Arabs (and probably others) used weights,... and that took mechanics.

yeah.. "most"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_stone
Reading stones were developed in the 9th century, following the development by Abbas Ibn Firnas.
And your "inventor" took that stone and put it on a nose.

Never stopped Christians to go forth with modern slavery. As I noted 1/4 of a million in South Africa. And segregation also means, that some lives don't matter one bit,... hence lynchings. Doesn't sound any better than slavery when hung over nothing.

And that is what matters.

 

Guess what? It was done all the time back then, females were considered to be of no value but for reproduction.

 

That is classic Islamophobia.
https://www.quora.com/What-does-Surah-9-5-of-the-Quran-mean

 

It was. There are all kinds of examples how mass production of say, pottery, ended... because not even that was able to survive.

 

.
They were as much "protected" than a mafia protect the shopkeepers in his sector. Furthermore, they wouldn't have need to be "protected" from the musims if muslims didn't invaded them in the first place. Muslims invade you and then force you to pay higher taxes, and christian should have thanked them ?

Good, I don't even need to point your standarts, you do it by yourself.

The biggest because in the 20th century, christian brought the world at the summit of its technology, and one of this consequence was that world population went from 800 millions people around 1750 to 2 billions 500 millions in 1950. When the world population triple, the number of victims explode too.

"It", what is it ?
Wikipedia list those countries as being the western belligerent :
USA, UK, Australia, Poland, Italy, Georgia, Ukraine, Netherland,Spain, Portugal, Denmark. I ignored South Korea because it's not a christian country.

The EU doesn't have any army, and neither France or Germany were involved in this war.
So, it's 11 countries. And with Europe only, I can prove that you're wrong by quoting at least 11 countries who weren't involved in the war in Iraq
France, Germany, Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Czeck Republic, Slovakia, Ireland. What is this ? 13 "christian" countries not involved in this war. And there is much more countries who wasn't involved in that.
And there is a lot of christian countries outside Europe, and no central/south america country were involved, no african country.

That was ironic, your claim that most christian countries were involved in the irak war is one of the most ridiculous thing I ever read on this forum.

Very sad yes.

The west invented vaccines, anesthesic, photography, movies, planes, cars, domesticated electricity, phones, bikes, metereology, computers, artifical hearts and much more things. If a lot of people are alive today it's too thanks western inventions like vaccines, and you own much of your comfort you're living in to the west.

You proved nothing, you quoted an interpretation of this hadith that please you. And ? You showed that some muslims doesn't follow that hadith ? And ? That's your personnal interpretation. It's anyway a game muslims love to play "beware, the words doesn't mean what they obviouslu mean". By the way I'm islamophobic, islam threaten the life of people I love and the legacy of my ancestors.

You're not supposed to be.

Funny, I'm on a political forum to exchange ideas, you're here to defeat people. To each one his mentalities, you won nothing, probably a prize of bad faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_scholars_in_the_Renaissance

The migration waves of Byzantine scholars and émigrés in the period following the Crusader sacking of Constantinople and the end of the Byzantine Empire in 1453, is considered by many scholars key to the revival of Greek and Roman studies that led to the development of the Renaissance humanism[4] and science. These emigres were grammarians, humanists, poets, writers, printers, lecturers, musicians, astronomers, architects, academics, artists, scribes, philosophers, scientists, politicians and theologians.[5] They brought to Western Europe the relatively well-preserved remnants and accumulated knowledge of their own (Greek) civilization, which had mostly not survived the Dark Ages in the West.

Yeah, we're not in 1940 anymore, nowodays, who is slaughtering jews in Europe ? Muslims. Did pre war jews commited slaughter against european population ? No.
I know that speech "accept muslims to kill people, to loot your cities, to destroy your culture or you're a nazi".

Fake news.
The death toll is detailled and it include south america :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition#Death_tolls_and_sentenced

Yes seaworth, not oceanworthy.

I never claimed they invent the clock, an no, they invented verge escapement, which aren't springs.

Yes "probably". Arabs used water clocks with mechanical parts. Which made clocks bigger. I have quoted already a lot of things about and the importance of verge escapements, if you're too lazy to read or your bad faith is to big to admit it, I don't care.
I had to deepen the topic to be able to answer. The arabs had mechanics in their clocks, but european of the middle age made them fully mechanicals.

Okay, not really, you need to have much thinner glass to put that on your nose. It doesn't change the fundamental role of Ptolemy and Al-Haytham, but to use that on spectacles, you can't use lens who looks like stones. I notice that the telescope were invented in Europe in the very early 17th century. What a shame for arabs, one of them created the bases of optic but that european who succeed to use those discoveries to invent things.

]

Muslims are quite good at that too :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/slaves-of-isis-the-long-walk-of-the-yazidi-women
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...a-leone-sold-like-slaves-domestic-work-kuwait
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.stronghold/index.html
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1312616/world
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-auctions-un-migration.

And there is two million of slaves in Pakistan : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Pakistan (it's interisting to go in the source, read the newspaper articles).

And it's not limited to one country at the opposite of your case.

And what is the main argument of this article :
" It should be noted, therefore, that the injunction in this verse to fight against the “polytheists” does not pertain to either Jews or Christians from the point of view of Islamic Law. Interestingly, Jews and Christians are never referred to within the Quran by the term mushrikun."

Globally, it says "it's okay, it call to the murder of polytheist, not christian and jews". Like, I said, a part of my family is directly concerned by that article, and they're not christian.

I never concealed the fact that I'm islamophobic.

There were a disaster in the 4th century, pretty much what is happening today to Europe, a bunch of barbarian invaded Rome. Except that today that's not goth or vandals, less blonde people.
The western roman empire imploded in the 4th century, and because a disaster doesn't come alone, two centuries later, a bunch of barbarian called muslims came and invaded North Africa (mostly christian kingdoms), Spain and plundered Italy.
Those invasions are the birth of Europe, before, for an inhabitant of Italy, the inhabitant of northern africa were a trade partner, a member of the same empire and civilization (by the way, we can go back until the Rome/Carthage war but I'm speaking of what happened in the 6th/7th century). Then they became a threat. Middle east and North Africa, Egypt were among the most important part of the roman empire.
They became so much of threat that Sardinia and Corsica have still the beheaded arab head on their flag, a remember of all the raids the arabs launched on their lands, spreading already terror in Europe.

So in the 5th/6th century, Europe had to start back almost from the ground and effectively at this very moment, a lost of things from the roman empire was lost. It took centuries, to build back Europe, or to simply build if we speak of the eastern and more northern part.
And it wasn't easy, as Europe was always assaulted by the southern part. But slowly and surely, they build back, learning what they had to learn from the southern barbarian, learning some innovations of those barbarians, learning from them innovations invented by people like the Chinese.
But starting from the 10th century, it's something else. It can be perceived in the architecture, steel work. Great european medieval thinker like William of Ockam or the mathematician Fibbonnaci lived during those times. Universities are build during those times, painter who announce the incoming renaissance like Giotto lived during those time.

I visited many middle age centuries, there is plenty of middle age (mostly 1000-1400) ceramics. I even knew someone specialized on that specific topic.

All innovations I quoted were from those times.

 

You're making it all up. The taxes were dropped for life as soon as they joined the army to help out with the protecting.

You brought up,.. don't invade if you don't like to be attacked. Jews world wide are just flocking over to Israel. They kicked out +90% of the Arabs their to thieve their properties, and bit by bit they are taking over the WB. So.. you know. Your principals are very supportive of Hamas.

Country with the biggest population is China, closely followed by India. The Christians did not bring anything to them. Get real. Their literally is hardly a thing them Christians left behind after centuries of violently oppressing almost the entire world. All you do, is distract away from the fact that Christians made a bigger massacre than your example.

It's not west.. it's THE EU who is that Christian. Get over it.

Pff. you're ranting Hamas policies, and you say that western wars were for the greater good. That would include the holocaust.

So the amount of people killed with the inquisition was much higher

All obtained because they violently oppressing about the entire world for 100's of years. And they still are starting pointless wars all over. Biggest armies. Biggest companies making machines to massacre. Most nuclear bombs as well.

I put up 2 sources. And you got nothing.

"Their main role within the Renaissance humanism was the teaching of the Greek language to their western counterparts"

Whooptido!

Nazi's are the most deadliest home grown terrorist organisations.
And Nazi's are anti-semitic.

Nope. Because what you post are people sentenced to death. The people of Tenochtitlan were massacred without a trial... so 200.000 people don't get added.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/seaworthy
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/spellcheck/english/?q=oceanworthy

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/seaworthy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oceanworthy

I never claimed they invent the clock, an no, they invented verge escapement, which aren't springs.

Arabs invented the geared clock.
The first geared clock was invented in the 11th century by the Arab engineer Ibn Khalaf al-Muradi in Islamic Iberia

Arabs discovered the law of refraction to calculate how light travels through a lens.
They even had anaclastic lenses, parabolic mirrors and biconvex lenses
/facepalm

Stuff like that is right on par with human trafficking in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery_in_the_United_States
And as I noted... loads of western companies make a profit of slavery elsewhere... companies like Unilever, Nestle and Procter & Gamble

The main argument is, that Islamophobics use it to make up fake news.

And that is what I've been telling you all along.

 

Its child rape culture.

 

Yes and if you join the mafia, you don't have to worry neither of them. Furthermore, jizyah wasn't the only part of racket, the status of dhimmi included many other :
In addition to other legal limitations, Christians were not considered equals to Muslims and several prohibitions were placed on them. Their testimony against Muslims by Christians and Jews was inadmissible in courts of law wherein a Muslim could be punished; this meant that their testimony could only be considered in commercial cases. They were forbidden to carry weapons or ride atop horses and camels. Their houses could not overlook those of Muslims; and their religious practices were severely circumscribed

I don't care of your semitic conflicts.

Today yes, in the 50's no and China, India, they use anesthesics, electricity, television, phones. SO yes, the christians broughts things to them.

Go on, quote me where the EU is a christian organization.

"The EU is a secular body, i.e., there is a separation of church and state. There are no formal ties to any religion and no mention of religion in any current or proposed treaty.".

No I said they were done in the name of the greater good. I just described the process that use our western government to make us agree with their dirty wars, by pretending they're doing that. Furthermore, I don't rant hamas policies, I don't care of your semitic on semetic conflicts. I admire the Israelian more than the arabs, it's true, because the first are smarter than the second, but I don't care of this conflict.

You're always changing the topic. The inquisition and the spanish inquisition aren't exactly the same thing, furthermore, the spanish inquisition killed almost nobody in south america, the conquistadors yes, but they weren't any part of the spanish inquisition. The spanish inquisition were a judicial organization to judge heretics and witches.

As much the technological progress commited by the arabs were the result of the violent oppression of the arabs. Furthermore, that's false. If two small countries like UK and France were able to conquer the whole world, it's because we had already a huge technological advance. Furthermore, there were a lot of countries who invaded others. I never heard that mongolian were scientific genius. The ottomans build a huge empire without having any particular scientific progress.
The european were able to rationalize the scientific and thought progress through scientists and philosophers like William of Ockham (born during late middle age), Copernicus (born in the very late Middle Age), Descartes and Auguste Comte.

Fake news, China have the biggest army by far with 2 millions people in the army, not the biggest budget, but the biggest army. Indian has the second biggest army. Western country have the largest budget, but they're the richest country too.
We have the biggest companies on almost everything, weapons, food, pharmacology, robots, computers, cars, planes. So when you're the best in all high tech industry, you're too the best at producing weapons.
And it's not a big secret that most of those companies feel above the laws.

Nothing but the original hadith itself. I quoted the hadith, you quoted things to pretend that this hadith don't mean obviously what it means. I quoted the words of your prophet, you quoted people who says "the words of the prophet doesn't mean what they mean".

Source ? Maybe in the USA, At least not in France. Hundred of people were slaughtered by muslims in France alone, neo nazis killed 0 people those last years (as far as I remember, you might find one or wo cases). So the biggest threat in europe is muslims, not neo nazis. Without considering they organized a small slave trade in UK with the telford and rotherham case. Not really surprizing, there is 2 millions slaves in Pakistans, when the pakis came, they wanted to do like at their home.

Funny, the banu qurayzan were slaughtered because they betrayed Muhammed and you defend that, the conquistadors slaughtered people
and you cry. The fact there were a "trial" (a big word for the banu qurayzan) doesn't change. It wasn't the spanish inquisition but a conquistador expedition.

In any case, it's the euros who reached the americas first, still the euros who were the first to cross the atlantic ocean through ships to reach the americas, still the euros who made the first travel around the world. If muslims were so good navigators, why they didn't crossed the atlantic ocean ? Or the pacific one ?

And that's a big fat lie because ancient greek already had geared clock like Ctesibius, Yi Xing in China build one in the 8th century..
Khalaf Al-Muradi invented a clock with gears but powered with mercury, european invented clocks using only gears when before, clock were relying on water or in this case mercury.

Ctesibius clock :

Source ? Furthermore, after more research, the arabs didn't invented optics, it was a greek/roman scholar, Ptolemic. It's still in the end the euros who invented spectacles and telescops.

It can't even be compared to the millions of slaves in Pakistan, Mauritania. Slavery is a crime in the USA for a long time.

Everybody know that big corporations are mafias, and the chinese/japanese/korean one aren't much better. As far as I know, even it's not commited on a national ground, slavery is an international crime, so if you have solid proves of thoses crimes, you should give it to tribunals or newspapers.

Not really. That's not an argument, it's a conclusion. The only thing this author says it's "it targets non christian non jews, so it's okay".

I'm anyway use to those muslims "scholars" who pretend that every embarassing passage of the quran or embarassing hadith doesn't mean what they mean. The quran allow to beat his wife in S4V34 ? Doesn't mean what it mean. The quran tell to kill all polytheists in S9V32 ? Doens't mean what is means. The quran says to fight until there is no more disbelief in S8V39 ? Doesn't mean what it means. The quran says that disbelief is worse than murder making the vast majority of manking worse than murderer in eyes of muslims ? Doesn't mean what it means. Quran says to no call for peace when lmuslims are superior in quran S47V35 ? Doesn't mean what it means.

Where I get my quotes ? www.quran.com, sahih international translation mostly. Not an islamophobic website.

Some muslims says that Islam is a complicated religion, I trust them on that, a religion where nothing means what it's supposed to mean must be a very complicate religion.

Absolutely not, you're taking european middle age from the 5th century to the 15th century as if it was a coherent whole. A lot of things happened between the fall of the Roman empire and the 11th century. The 5th century/8th century were dark time, but then things changed, and starting the tenth century, Europe became back industrial and had a lot of their own scholars, some still well known like Ockam or Fibbonaci.
No modern historians who worked seriously on that epoch will call the european middle age dark ages, the high middle age (this 5th-8th century epoch) yes, but the rest no.

 

You can't leave the mafia as you leave the army. You're comparison is just so not there.

Oh pfffff. Muslims had zero rights to be alive in Christian Europe during them days.
That really doesn't compare well. And that's why you so lost the debate.

Of course you suddenly don't care about don't invade when you don't like be killed... when the shoo suddenly really fits. It's just like your... war by the west has been for the greater good. Where you can't fit in the holocaust.

Well everything after the 50's is what China and India made themselves. The Christian west did not bring the countries that they violently oppressed for centuries. All they got is that their resources got drained, and they got treated as 2nd class,.. far worse than the status of dhimmi... in their own country. And here you are,.. petting yourself on the back that while the Christian/Jewish west was violently oppressing the entire world, the world needs to be thankful that they were unable to make any progress but the Christians/Jews were.

I already sourced the % of Christians in the EU.

Go tell the Jews that the holocaust was for the greater good.

There are Arabs who are Israeli. You means Jews. And.. oh you supremacist you... lol
If them Jews were so smart, they would be able to live in peace in Israel, instead of having this "marvelous" idea that ongoing ethnic cleansing people will lead to a peace.

Dude. This is about Christians slaughtering more people than Muslims. And you lost this argument.

No it wasn't. It was the result that they kept going with Roman, Greek and their own idea's. Where Europe dropped them all. You admitted to this with your "So in the 5th/6th century, Europe had to start back almost from the ground and effectively at this very moment, a lost of things from the roman empire was lost. It took centuries, to build back Europe"

They were hardly more advanced than the Chinese and Japanese. They were however far more violent.

Sure... sure. Tell me when the Chinese fleet is as big as the American one, and controlling the Persian Gulf.

You quoted a hadith and you made up what it meant by never minding the context.

I'm not going to source that nazi's are anti-semtic. I suggest you go to school for that or pick up a book.

The American nazi's killed more people in the US in the last 10 years than Muslims.

Because they betrayed muslim during a war while they had a perfectly well alliance. They wouldn't have harmed them if they kept their word.

Because the Christians were on a genocidal rampage, breaking their word with the indigenous people.

The point was the seaworthiness of their ships. And you tried to whine with your big far lie of "oceanworthy" ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_timekeeping_devices
The first geared clock was invented in the 11th century by the Arab engineer Ibn Khalaf al-Muradi in Islamic Iberia; it was a water clock that employed a complex gear train mechanism, including both segmental and epicyclic gearing,[4][83] capable of transmitting high torque. The clock was unrivalled in its use of sophisticated complex gearing, until the mechanical clocks of the mid-14th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Sahl_(mathematician)
Ibn Sahl is the first Muslim scholar known to have studied Ptolemy's Optics, and as such an important precursor to the Book of Optics by Ibn Al-Haytham (Alhazen), written some thirty years later.[8] Ibn Sahl dealt with the optical properties of curved mirrors and lenses and has been described as the discoverer of the law of refraction (Snell's law).

It's a crime in Pakistand and Mauritiania as well. But it still doesn't change the fact that it exists in the US, and plenty of western multinationals used exploited slaves illegally in dirt poor countries.

I have SOURCED... that it really is Islamophobic.
https://www.quora.com/What-does-Surah-9-5-of-the-Quran-mean

Look at my source, buddy.

industrial? That's not 15th century. Backward it was.

 

They were invaders. What are you hoping ? Furthermore, it seems our ancestors were right, because as soon there were muslims in Europe, they started to commit suicide attacks.

I care of Europe and the future of the european culture, by the way I don't care of those pity middle east conflicts.

They still use inventions of the west, a lot of them, phones, cars, anesthesics, everything of that were invented by the west. They developped themselves with western technologies.

Far worse than the status of dhimmi, you're the one saying that. Funny how you do the apology of all the islamic invasions, and if the west invade people, magically it become evil. During the colonization, there were no forbiddence to build cult place, slavery was abolished, no special taxes for unbelievers. So yes, there were to a lot of brutalities, but colonization was much better than islamic invasions, and it's still bad. It's just less evil than evil.

Doesn't change that the EU as an organization doesn't recognize any religion. (but money). Furthermore, if some EU members were involved in the war of iraq, the EU as an institution had no roles in that war.

I never said that. I just tried to explain you that a lot of bad thing were commited because that was sold in the homeland as expeditions for the greater good. Our governments have an old tradition of selling us things for what they're not. For instance colonization as a way to help people. Which was the opposite.

The smartness is to know that there is people who will always try to kill you.

No you claimed that the spanish inquisition kill hundred of thousands of people. You lied. I don't remember having claimed that muslims slaughtered more people than christian. Quote where I says that.

Prove it. My claim is that everything of that disappeared because the european roman empire was plundered both by northern barbarian. and southern barbarian.

No I don't admitted this. I said there were effectively a crash of the european civilization around 5/6th century, I never said that european dropped that/

Hardly more advanced ? They had trains, air balloons, steam engine, pocket clocks.The Japanese before the Meiji times were in the middle age.

You claimed that the western world armies were the biggest, I show you that you were wrong. The biggest budget are up to the western world however.

Oh yes, I forgot. The all mighty context who turn every hadith in what they don't mean.

I don't ask you to source your claim that nazis are anti semitic, I ask you to source your claim that neo nazis are a biggest domestic terrorist issue in western Europe.

By the way, the american were wise enough to refuse most muslims on their territory. There is like only one million muslims for 360 millions american.

That was muslims claims, another possibility is that they wanted to stop a dangerous caravan plunderer who pretended to be persecuted and conquered most of arabia during his lifetime, proving that his war were nothing but defensive.

I don't deny that Conquistadors were brutals., but the pope wrote a papal bull in 1515 if I remember well, forbidding to brutalize native americasn. That wasn't enforced by the way. Conquistadors were mostly mercenaries.

It doesn't change that

And what it says ? That it was a water clock with gears, but a water clock, you're quoting the proof that european invented the mechanical clocks in the mid 14th century.
Furthermore, I don't know why wikipedia claims that it was the first geared clock because Ctesibius clock had obviously gears, as I sourced it.

Yes and, I never claimed the roles of arabs in that, but optics were invented by greeks. Doesn't change that the european invented the clocks and the telescopes.

Like you said, illegaly. And it's a crime in Mauritania since 2007. It's very recent. Doesn't change that all the slavery cases I mentionned are ture, and there is far more slaves in islamic countries as I already sourced.
There is almost no slaves in Europe or USA, Canada. And the 200 000 slaves in USA is nothing compared to the situation in Koweit, Mauritania or Pakistan.

And another "the quran doesn't mean what it obviously mean".

Your source, quora, and I quote the quran and the hadith, when you source dishonnest people who try to claim everytime that the quran or hadith doesn't mean what they mean.

Industrial in the sense
mass noun Economic activity concerned with the processing of raw materials and manufacture of goods in factories

Oxford dictionnary.

Backward ? People who invented the most well spread music notation, quaranteen, fully geared clock, dry compass and their own printing press were not backward. Furthermore during European middle age, slavery was outlawed of many european territories, we can't say the same of islamic middle age who predated people to castrate them and sell them as eunuchs.

 

Some details I forgot

@notme

I never pretended that christans slaughtered less people, I'm well aware of the past of my civilization, with the greatness of its technologic might, it's art. About ethic it's more complicated, I don't deny that the western civilization had a great violence. It's more for the native american, the subsaharian african, I consider our past as morally poor. For muslims, they were always agressors and attacked our civilization, everything they got from us. However I spit on all your pathetic tries to whitwash all the crimes commited by muslims. All the war and slaughters commited by the muslims aren't any better because the christian were violent aswell.
But, does it make the western civilization bad ? Not really. Every inch of this world had been thirsten by blood. The conquistadors were brutes, and the aztecs weren't any better.
From the moral point of view, I don't think that any civilization were better or worst than any. The matter is very complex, even if I have a preference for two of them, the chinese one and the european one and I'm well aware of how idealistic the european could be to be able to fall in the most limitless violence possible.
The western world however brought a lot from the technological point of view.

Anyway, if any of us pretend to says that christian or muslims slaughtered more than another, that would be a big fat lie for a simple reason : there is a lot of wars and conflict were there is no death tolls, no death toll for all the conflicts of the ummayad conflicts, no death toll for the conflicts raided by the ottoman empire, and so on.

I don't feel ashamed of my civilization, and I will never do so, considering its good sides and poor sides together and I won't let leftists and muslims together destroy it even if it's already almost dead. I don't feel guilty for any of this and I won't let any muslims kill our children or rape them, trying us to eat their stupid hallal food or follow their ramadan.

None of those facts doesn't change that muslims are the source of most terrorist attacks of this world, that south america is one of the most deadly places of this world and that NATO was involved among the last more deadly conflicts.

Anyway, this is quite boring to debate with you, you deny obvious things, and obviously, you're only aim is to whitewash islamic crimes and belittle western civilization. I don't deny there is troubles with our countries, corruptions and so on, but you really think that we will accept islamic terrorism because of that ?

The chinese not violent ?

I will quote a part of wikipedia article on the An Lushan Rebellion

Censuses taken in the half-century before the rebellion show a gradual increase in population, with the last census undertaken before the rebellion, in 755, recording a population of 52,919,309 in 8,914,709 taxpaying households. However, a census taken in 764, the year following the end of the rebellion, recorded only 16,900,000 in 2,900,000 households. Later censuses count only households, but by 855 this figure had risen to only 4,955,151 households, little over half the number recorded in 755.[17]Some scholars have interpreted the difference in the census figures as implying the deaths of 36 million people, about two-thirds of the population of the empire. This figure was used in Steven Pinker's book The Better Angels of Our Nature, where it is presented as proportionally the largest atrocity in historywith the loss of a sixth of the world's population at that time,[18] though Pinker noted that the figure was controversial.[19] Johan Norberg, who in his book Progress: Ten Reasons to Look Forward to the Future is generally supportive of Pinker's arguments, gives the number of 13 million people (citing Matthew White's The Great Big Book of Horrible Things), which he notes is still highly significant, representing about 5% of the 8th century world's population.[20]

Another part of the Qing Conquest of the Ming :

When the Qing imposed the Queue Order in China, many Han defectors were appointed in the massacre of dissidents. Li Chengdong, a former Ming general who had defected to the Qing faction[101], oversaw three massacres in Jiading that occurred within the same month; together which resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and left cities depopulated.[102]

The city of Jiangyin, which had held out against about 10,000 Qing troops before the city wall was breached on October 9th, 1645, observed a tremendous decline in population followed by the mass killing of 74,000 to 100,000 residents. Troops under the command of Liu Liangzuo (劉良佐) were ordered to "fill the city with corpses before you sheathe your swords."[103] Although Manchu Bannermen were often related to the Jiangyin Massacre which targeted the Ming loyalists, a majority of whom who had participated in Jiangyin Massacre were Han Bannermen.[104]

In Fuzhou, although former-Ming subjects were initially compensated with silver for complying to the Queue Order, general Hong Chengchou had enforced the policy thoroughly on the residents of Jiangnan by 1645.[105][106] The Han banner was repeatedly assigned to enforce the Queue Order, often resulting in massacres such as the Yangzhou Massacre,[107] during which local residents were seen harassed by troops.[108]

In Guangzhou, massacres of Ming loyalists and civilians in 1650 were carried out by Qing forces under the command of Shang Kexi and Geng Jimao.[109][110]


The initial conquest of China by the Manchus was one of the most devastating wars in Chinese history. Examples of the devastation include the Yangzhou massacre; in which some 800,000 people, including women and children, were massacred.[202] Whole provinces, such as Sichuan and Jiangnan, were thoroughly devastated and depopulated by the Manchu conquest, which killed an estimated 25 million people.

And there is many more chinese war who made millions of death : taiping revolt, dungan revolts.

Chinese and Japanese on that point are similar to the European. Both have low bomicide countries, however both have no limits when they release the violence.

 

Chinese and Japanese cultures tend to be pretty high-strung.
They make European culture look easy and relaxed in comparison.

Much the same way Americans might view the culture in Jamaica.

 

That's good. It's not by being relaxed that you do great things. Chinese were able to turn an absolutely undevelopped country in 1970 to a world might. Japanese did the same after the Meiji opening to the world, getting from middle age to one ofthe most modern countries. Roman were remembered for being extremly harsh. That's why they had a great civilization. Western world forgot the good old values of discipline for fake values like tolerance and laxism.
They're so tolerant they tolerate rape and murder now.

 

Chinese who move to Malaysia say all the Malays are lazy.

The Malaysians have even implemented ethnic quota limits on the number of Chinese allowed to enter public universities, because they think the Chinese are too successful.

So many Chinese families in Malaysia have to scrimp and save to manage to be able to send their children to a private university.

 

Were they invaders? Christians only invaded it 300 years earlier. How about they don't invade if they don't like to be killed. Oh wait... Muslims did not persecute Christians to death in Spain, unlike the Christians themselves who persecuted everybody who wasn't Christian.

You brought up,.. don't invade if you don't like to be attacked. And them Christians and Jews are the ones who are invading countries. They have been utterly violent for centuries like that. Ever since they started to violently oppress the world under their colonial reign. And I don't care about your feelings about Europe. The point is.... who is the most violent. And it's obvious. Hence you lost the debate.

It's still inventions of the west during the days that they violently oppressed about the entire world. No violently oppressed ex-colonial country got anything to show for it.

Of course the west became evil as soon as they invaded people. Look at how they treated the native Americans... on the entire continent. I already mentioned how it went on in Tenochtitlan. Nothing really different compared to how the native Americans of the US experienced it. They killed Shaka Zulu and much of his tribe in South Africa. Australia apologized for their utterly retarded behavior that they ended like in the 1970/1980's towards the natives. As for your "there were no firbiddences to build a cult place".... Christians spread they faith across the world by the edge of their swords buddy. Stop trying to rewrite history.

And Muslims hardly did that, while most of the time had no problem with who ever keeping their faith. Jews fled Christian Europe towards the Ottoman empire, where they were able to receive high ranking governmental positions, with no problem.

So what. It's still Christian. I sourced it.

You said "The problem of western violence is always the same. It's for the greater good."
And you're just dead wrong.

If you don't like to be killed, than don't invade... is YOUR line. But you're not applying it to Jews who massively migrated to Israel and ethnic cleansed +90% of the Arab Israeli civilian population. And ones again.. western Christian/Jews are more violent.

The entire conversation is who is the most evil and who killed the most.
You lost this conversation.

Oh how petty. You admit they lost the technology, but now I need to prove it. lol

You did say "So in the 5th/6th century, Europe had to start back almost from the ground and effectively at this very moment, a lost of things from the roman empire was lost. It took centuries, to build back Europe". I call that admitting

If they were so backward, than go explain how Pearl Harbor happened. The Japanese kicked out all them colonial thug powers out of South East Asia on their own.

Sure... sure. Still not seeing the Chinese fleet controlling the Persian Gulf.

https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-was-responsible-for-the-majority-of-extremist-killings-in-2017/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...me-las-vegas-shooting-extremist-a8165416.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ves-islamist-extremists-report-thinktank-rusi
http://www.ekathimerini.com/227956/...igrants-on-lesvos-turn-town-into-battleground
https://www.dw.com/en/more-than-3500-attacks-on-refugees-in-germany-in-2016-report/a-37719365

So much for you doubting that nazi's kill more people than muslims in the US.
It "probably" has to do with the rather big group of nazi's in the US as well.
Their support is twice as big as the support of ISIS among Muslims.

Nope. This is it. You don't get to rewrite the faith to appease your Islamophobic thoughts.

Irrelevant. They were western people. Invaded, and slaughtered around. Typical.

On the claim those Muslims did not have such ships: ha!
Your oceanworthy is just made up lies.

It says perfectly fine that it's considered a geared clock, and I don't care what you think about it.
It even goes as far as that this geared clock lasted centuries on end before the next improvement.

What ethnicity is the "father of optics"? It aint a Greek now is it? They got hang of lenses and what not.
All a western dude did, was use a lens to read better, and stuck it on a nose. Whooptido!

You're just making it up that it's worse in Kuwait. And as I mentioned.. it's western multinationals who make a profit on slavery.

Dude. You ripped it out of context and gave it your own interpretation and added your Islamophobic twist to it.
You got sourced to be wrong.

Not in any sense. The industrial age did not happen in that time period.

music notation? That started in present day middle east.
You lost the debate on the geared clock.
And there already was press printing

 

All the war and slaughters commited by the muslims are less. You confessed yourself that the Christian/Jews are the most brutal. Back in the day they violently oppressed about the entire world. Not the Muslims. And even today, it's them Christian/Jews folks who start wars all over the place. All them millions of refugees running away from Iraq and Syria... it's ALL their fault. You don't see some Muslim country invading an other 15.000 miles away. Christian/Jews nations do it all the time.

 

Muslims invaded spain, they hoped what ? Hugs ? Furthermore, our ancestors were proved right, as soon they opened their borders to muslims, they started to plan slaughters against locals. The less you have muslims, the less you have terrorism.

You really think that I will sacrifice my children because Georges W Bush and the generation of their great great great grand dad was nasty to arabs ? Arabs are murdering us, we won't let us.

The same for arabs. They didn't invented anything before Muhammed and his companions went for world dominatioN.


[quote)]Of course the west became evil as soon as they invaded people. Look at how they treated the native Americans... on the entire continent. I already mentioned how it went on in Tenochtitlan. Nothing really different compared to how the native Americans of the US experienced it. They killed Shaka Zulu and much of his tribe in South Africa. Australia apologized for their utterly retarded behavior that they ended like in the 1970/1980's towards the natives. As for your "there were no firbiddences to build a cult place".... Christians spread they faith across the world by the edge of their swords buddy. Stop trying to rewrite history.[/quote]

I never pretended the opposite, I just said they were pacifist for the three first centuries, at the opposite of muslims who started to agress people from the start.

Lol, the highest possible levle of hypocrisy possible, muslims invaded dozen of countries to impose jizyahs on locals and capture slaves and you want me to believe that they are pacifist.

By the way they didn't had problems, because they were paying jizyah and were an important money source.

Still doesn't change that as an organization it doesn't recognize any religion, and if some of their members were involved in the iraqi war, the EU as an organization wasn't involved, and two of its most important members were opposed to the iraq war.

I was trying you to explain how wars were sold in the west, by making believing people that it's for a good cause when it isn't. For instance before iraq wars, american medias put some "news" on all the horrors commited by Saddam, to convince them to go to war, for Lybia, it was the same, they were filming the people that Ghaddafi were bombing, showing us hurt children and saying that if we didn't stopped Ghaddafi we were accomplice. There is a big propaganda machine in the west for advocating war, and how do they sold those wars ? By making people believe it's for a good cause.

 

I spoke of the most used in nowodays time music notation, based on the mediaval music notation the neume. I never spoke of "musical notation" alone.

 

We already covered this. Christians only invaded it 300 years earlier... and they made everybody Christian by the edge of their sword.
The Muslims did nothing of the sort. And when the Christians invaded Spain again... the Jews fled to the Ottoman empire.
That does say it all how utterly violent the Christians were.

You lot placed a coup against an elected government in the middle east, you lot supported that genocidal terrorist of a Saddam Hussein, you lot support the massive influx of immigrant Jews in Israel who ethnic cleansed +90% of Israel and are going forth with their ways across the border. And here you say.. Arabs are murdering us.

The wheel was invented there. And the entire system of 60 minutes in an hour,.. etc. 360 degrees to make a full turn... that's all from there. You got absolutely no clue what you're saying.

They were a total minority in the first 300 years and could not do a thing. Muslims were not aggressive from the start. They made peace treaties with all kinds of people. Too bad for them Jews who breached them during a war. We've already discussed this.

They didn't converted people by the edge of their sword in plenty of places. I can't say the same about Christians. And jizyahs was easy enough to avoid. We already discussed this.

The point was if it was Christian, which it is,.. and their contribution to massacres around the globe... as in helping out oppressing Iraq in them days.

You don't need to tell me. I've been telling you the west is the biggest sponsor of terror and war across the globe.

The biggest massacres are still wars started by Christians/Jews. And the US is the biggest spreader of terror on this globe.

Bla bla. You got your proof. You are just wrong.

I only need to look at the death toll caused by the Jewish/Christian west and can only conclude that they are far more violent.

This is all about the Jewish/Christian west being more violent. Not about 1 single point in time.

You claimed the west invented seaworthy ships. And that's just false. Them polynesians went all over the place with their ships, 1000's of years before a person from Europe was able to match that.

Where they just added a spring.

It all comes from Babylon, where they started with observing the sky, with optics.

You still made up out of thin air that slaves in Kuwait got it worse than in the US. And with a 1/4 of a million in just South Africa... not very Muslim country... and western multinationals profiting from it. Says enough.

I always said that context matters and your interpretation is fake.
And you lost this debate days ago.

You can quote the Oxford dictionary again and again. But the industrial age wasn't in them days.

I proved you wrong.

Absolutely irrelevant. Europe simply did not invent that.

 

Who cares. It's not their invention.

 

You know that there are 30 states in America that allow the same thing with a judges permission, right? Ain't just a Muslim thing.