Minimum Wage

Well, close. Employers hire at the lowest compensation they can offer while still getting the skills they need.

And, if there is no way to make a offer within the business model, they there is no job opening.

Yes, I covered that. You'll noted that I mentioned there are costs of employment.

In my line of work the non-salary costs of employment are about the same as the salary we offer. That figure accounts for bonuses, stock options, healthcare, other insurance, facilities, equipment, taxes, management, etc. As a rough estimate when evaluating plans I just double the salary. There are other forms of estimate, too. For example, for every x number of employees of one type you may need y number of employees of some different type. That can cover team size, but it can also cover requirements for certain kinds of support work from other teams.

 

There is no indication that "they" are failing.

 

Me too. I have at least 3-4 businesses someone could start I see the opportunity every week. It doesn't take a lot of brains either. Just look around, and a lot of the ideas can be had cheap. And I wanted SMART employees when I was running engineering departments or go into bankrupt business for a major employers. I think that some people are just lemmings, but they want to money the leader makes.

 

So why are you worrying about minimum wage?

 

Drugs, crime, alcoholism, laziness, affirmative action, the list goes on and on. They are FAILING if they cannot take care of themselves.

 

Tell me more about this education program. I'm pretty excited about education, and I think there is something to this idea.

 

Well, that certainly "solves" the existence of minimum wage!!

But, any prospective solution has to be evaluated on the basis of its effects, positive and negative.

A prospective solution isn't complete without understanding what comes after.

 

We teach them that second place is good with trophies for failure and just for participating. They don't learn how to win. First, teach them personal finance through Dave Ramsey University. Teach home skills. Teach solid civics. This is what they taught to my generation. Stop passing kids who should be failed until they pass. Teach to the test, and stop rewarding teachers for mediocre performance of their students. In the 1950s and 1960s they taught us all of this. Teach them civics, the constitution and where their rights come from. And they have to PASS to move forward. That's just for starters.

 

You either make it, or become expendable by your own laziness or you succeed by your own hand. Failure is not an option. Further, minimum wage is illegal under the 13th amendment.

 

One simple answer: When minimum wage goes below the cost of living, then I pay.

There are more reasons, but let's at least start there.

 

I agree there are problems.

But, I don't agree that the above problems are because we have SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

Every one of those programs was started because the situation was WORSE before. Claiming we should go back to when it was WORSE just doesn't make sense as an argument.

As for people not being able to take care of themselves, denying them care isn't a solution to the problems you mention.

It IS possible that we can do better in addressing these problems.

I do not agree that affirmative action is a problem. That IS in the solution space. You may argue that it isn't an effective solution if you want to try.

 

What happens after is that people will do what they always do which is to negotiate their salaries based upon what everybody brings to the table. Uncle Sam isn't invited, so it's between employer and employee.

This is called "freedom".

A big problem I have with big government types is that they think they know better than individuals do, and the government is the perfect tool to force people to do what they think is best for others.

Sorry, but I don't know what comes after and neither do you. We'll just have to see how freedom plays out. I'm betting that it'll be better than the alternative.

 

And then it will be $21 and then $24 dollars and the $28 and what about those who were making that much with more experience and a better work record?

 

Going back to the 1970's and I was taking management supervision course we were taught that was the least means of motivation and the most short lived.

 

No. Just plain NO.

Teaching that they fail if they aren't number one is absolute garbage. And, teaching if they are ##1 they ARE good is garbage. It is PRECISELY the wrong message.

What we're trying for in education is constant improvement of every last member of the group. Lifelong improvement of every individual is a stated objective of education. If you have one arm, the objective is to be constantly improving what can be done with one arm. If you have half your brain cells, then the objective is to constantly improve what can be done with half your brain cells. Whether you do better than the best person in your class is TOTALLY irrelevant - just like BEING the best person in your class is not the objective. Who the heck says your class is any representation of ANYTHING?

Story: My daughter did a stint in Teach for America in an inner city Chicago neighborhood. There was a student there who was head and shoulders above others at the school in math. It was essentially impossible to get this guy to believe he needed to improve, BECAUSE he KNEW he was #1 - the champion! So, he got picked to go to an inter-school math competition. He looked like an IDIOT in comparison.

What did #1 do for this guy???

Education is about learning how to improve, and then doing that.

 

Define "solid wage". What is the difference between a "solid wage" for someone in sales who generates $1,000,000 of income for a company, an engineer who designs multimillion dollar products, a vice-president who manages $1,000,000,000 in company (shareholder owned) assets and a "solid wage" for someone they have to pay to sweep up the floor and take our the trash at night.

 

Not for long. The only thing it would mean is that for quite a prolonged period of time all Americans not working in the board room would be making 20 25 an hour and the resultant price increases to cover all the costs associated with such a raise would mean that most mom and pops would instantly go out of business the number of entry level jobs would fall to levels not seen since the great depression and before long everyone would be on the dole.

 

Dooooood. All work is equal man. We’re all the same man. Empty trash or make decisions that effect the whole company, it’s all just work man.

Trying to do my best imitation of someone nice and lit who seriously believes that ****. Hehe

 

Yes, that's my experience, too.

In fact, one has to be careful that it isn't a DEmotivator, as when compensation gets compared (as it will regardless of management policy) perceived inequities can live FAR longer.

"My management isn't fair to me" lives longer than "I like my raise".

 

Whoo boy. Please explain that 13th amendment thing.

 

Well, that may be "freedom".

However, let's not pretend it is more than that.

Those in the minimum wage bracket have essentially zero leverage in salary negotiation. McD franchise owners don't "negotiate" with minimum wage new hires.

We have plenty of people not making the various proposed levels of minimum wage today.

You really don't have to guess that much.

 

Yep whether to double bag that trash can can have the same impact as should we build a new factory and where............

 

This is what I don't like about the Melania Trump "Be Best" motto.

I'd go for the "Friday Night Lights" motto before that:

"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"

 

There is more negotiation possible without a minimum wage. A minimum wage sets how much an employer has to pay, and that's going to get in the way of somebody who would love to work just for the experience if nothing else, but that's not possible with a minimum wage.

People actually pay to go to college so they can get some education to get their foot in the door. You don't have a problem with that, but you do have a problem with somebody working for free so they can get the experience that not even college can provide.

 

No, people work for free in many capacities.

That's what internships are.

In my line of work, we paid interns who often worked during months they weren't at college. That was an important source of new employees, and paying them like a regular employee was a good way to "set the hook" for those I wanted. But, not every company pays interns, or they pay them far below what a permanent employee would get at the same position.

There is a university in Canada where all those who graduate with a BS in science have to have had at least a half year of successful internship with a corporation.

Once you tossed college into the mix you went beyond any minimum wage argument.