"Christ" and "Christians"

True....... but before I began to study NDE accounts you and I might have been in general agreement on many more doctrinal issues?

So..... whoever the being of light of NDE fame is....... it may be significantly their fault that my own understanding of the Jewish and Christian scriptures is diverging from where you are at ARDY?

The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

1Kings 18:21
"And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."


Or... it could also be true that you may not understand the Jewish scriptures in the same way that Jewish intellectuals do?

https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380599/jewish/Judaism-and-Reincarnation.htm

Judaism and Reincarnation
Beginner
By Yerachmiel Tilles

 

Because a rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

When you have studied some of the thousands of links I provided for you............YOU may have a real argument.

When you do..........let me know.

 

I thought so.

You have no evidence.

 

Prove that the following deities do not exist. Based on your logic they are real.
https://www.blueosa.com/10-hindu-deities-everyone-know-pilgrimage-india/

 

Based on my logic, those are irrelevant deflections, to dodge the topic.

You demand 'proof!' that some belief is true. Others can reciprocate by demanding proof that your beliefs are true. Neither are rational arguments in a philosophical discussion.

 

Muhammad was illiterate, and taught the Quran must be verbally communicated. Written versions are called, 'interpretations'.

 

The first full written Qur'an was compiled from numerous sources that were used in cross checking and verification. The sources used in cross checking included writings of the time as well as the various individuals who had memorized his word - which could then be compared.

 

If other people saw gods who did miraculous things, I don't doubt them, I would just ascribe it to demonic activity. Jupiter himself, supreme ruler of all divinities, was referred to by Homer as a 'demon'. Spirituality outside of Christ and the bible is occultism.

And I never claimed to be able to 'prove' my worldview, just like you can't prove yours. I do say given the evidence it is more likely true than not. I wouldn't say that for other gods.

 

What it comes down to is one fairy tale is as good as another.

 

Love and have faith in God and Jesus and love thy neighbour as yourself.

 

And the ONE main point of all of the teaching of Jesus is........do works of love and generosity--emulate the Good Samaritan.

Do this and you will enter the Kingdom of God.

 

All religions may be false, but because there are competing views doesn't mean that one religion can't be objectively true.

 

Thx
i will look further when i have some time and inclination

However my fundamental starting view remains as follows : in order for abbrahamic religions to make sense

First there must be a god...
.... i grant there may be a god. I certainly cannot prove or be sure there is no god. But even if there were some god, IMO he would be so far beyond our comprehention that we humans could not come close to understanding anything about him. It would be like discussing what reality was like before the BIG BANG

But, something else must be true In order to take abrahamic religion seriously: this god must not only care about his creation... he must specifically care about humans. And, beyond caring about humans in general, more improbably, god must care about each human individually.... what each human does and thinks

Dennis
That is the crux by of my problem with abrahamic religion
IMO The whole story defies all common sense

What is the story i say defies common sense?
Ok... god created the universe
Then waited 13 billion years
Then eventually humans came into existence on a tiny spec of a planet
And those humans developed for manny millenea
Then eventually god selected one small tribe of these humans
And started caring about individual humans in that tribe
And started trying to communicate with them
And cared whether individual humans understood and believed in him... despite the fact that his reality was far beyond their primitive abilities to understand

Over all..., in the best case, ....our relationship with god would be somewhat equivalent to a person setting up a toy “ ant farm”.... and the caring about some some subset of individual ants within that ant farm... and caring about the thoughts of individual ants within that subset of ants within the ant farm...
THEN, add to all that the idea that i woild send my only son, to become an ant, who would be cuelly killed be the ant.... all so that i could forgive the ants for behaviors that were entirely normal for them

With all respect.... that sounds far beyond common sense in my way of thinking

 

The ant farm is a good analogy. However, this video explains God.

 

I'd settle for leaving the matter to Christ himself, as opposed to man's interpretation of what a "Christian" should be.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

- John 14:6.

 

I already have read about the subject, both sides. I always read both sides. Make your arguement if you can.

 

The problem here is that when you say "spirituality outside of Christ and the bible", what you really mean is outside your understanding of spirituality, Christ, and the bible. They are only known among Christians today according to their understanding. They no longer comprehend the different between "knowing" and "Knowing".

 

Can you name a religion that is "objectively true"? And if so, what, precisely, do you mean by "objectively true"?

 

I don't think there is a problem here. Yes, that is my opinion, just like your posts are your's.

 

IMHO, Christianity.

• Objectivity: That which is confirmable as true. The state or quality of being true even outside of a subject’s individual biases, perspectives, interpretations, feelings, imaginings, and/or opinions. True for everyone (or confirmable as true, despite the subjectivity, opinion, and belief of some); truth based on empirical evidence or formal logic. Ex. “Water is wet” or “1+1=2.” This type of truth is necessarily and certainly true. It has an absolute truth value independent of subjectivity.

 

So then you are saying that when you say "spirituality outside of Christ and the bible is occultism", you are merely presenting unsupportable personal opinion. Ok, I'm good with that but I think it would be best to state it as opinion, which may not be true.

 

Christianity cannot be confirmed as "objectively true". Some of the specific historical claims can be so confirmed, but the message they attempt to convey cannot be confirmed by reading, study, and investigation of facts.

OTOH when they are examined by correct, intended practice, that which is known of ALL ancient, enduring religions can be successfully dropped in favor of what is Knowable through correct practice. Then, what was thought to have been "known", is revealed to have really been what was believed.

But a religionist would read that ^^^ and be unable to fathom what I said. Only one with spiritual insight can grasp it.

 

So it is "rational" to believe in fairy tales?

 

That's why I said "IMHO". Would that atheists were as humble.