What does socialism mean to you?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Adfundum, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    As I said, protect the value of labour and ownership is guaranteed. The only issue is compensation for entrepreneurial spirit and any capital costs.
     
  2. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    "Protect the value of labour"? What does this entail exactly?
     
  3. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Socialism is surrendering individual liberty to the collective.....however the elite in the highest echelon want to define it. In the end, all at the bayonet point of the military.
     
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  4. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    I firmly believe socialism/communism/marxism or whatever you want to call it, as it existed in the Soviet Union and as dreamed of by the Chavez' and Maduro's of this world, is still light years away from reaching the US, so stop panicking.

    In the meantime, let's enjoy the best of both worlds, as very appropriately defined in the first page of this thread:

    It could also be compared to bitterness and sweetness; maybe we need another spoonful of sugar in the US society at this moment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but when the vast majority are on board with something, the thing will be a success. You will never get the vast majority of Americans to agree to more 'socialist' programs, and even if by some miracle you did .. you would absolutely never get the vast majority to agree to work continuously to support such programs. And that last agreement is essential.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but when the vast majority are on board with something, the thing will be a success. You will never get the vast majority of Americans to agree to more 'socialist' programs, and even if by some miracle you did .. you would absolutely never get the vast majority to agree to work continuously to support such programs. And that last agreement is essential.
     
  7. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    There are many psychologists, artists, musicians, history professors, and so forth who earn a good living and contribute to the economy more so than many of those who have only limited education. The issue comes down to the purpose of education: Do we get a broad education that teaches us much about the world we live in, or is education merely for getting a job? Does history repeat itself? Do those in the media who have studied psychology and sociology use their knowledge to "control the herd"? Would studying psychology, history, and sociology make people more aware of the subtle techniques used to control how groups of people think?
     
  8. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Wouldn't that destruction come from corruption rather than socialism?
     
  9. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Interesting. Can you explain what you mean by "aggression principals"?

    In that sense, can an individual really exist within a society?

    If you own yourself, does that mean you are not beholden to any laws?
    What is the purpose of laws?
    Are laws not a type of socialism?

    Capitalism is in part based on collecting the fruits of labor as a whole, then redistributing a part of those fruits. Isn't that the same as an "entity [taking] the fruits of another's labor"?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  10. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Socialism is a lust for wealth that others have earned by pursuing their life's work energetically. Socialists seek control in order to achieve their goal of appropriating the fruit of others' labor. There are many bullying techniques to include genocide that socialists use against those who resist their control. The Green New Deal is just one example of how socialists go about controlling people. It's also known as the Watermelon Deal, Green on the outside and Communist on the inside.
     
  11. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I asked about this previously, but is it possible for an individual to exist in a society? I think it's important to be clear about your definition of "free society" because the word society indicates a certain level of socialism. It may be a bit of hair splitting, but using the binary either/or definitions of something like individuality or socialism stops a good discussion in it's tracks.

    If socialism can only be implemented through governmental force, then laws in a society can be classified as socialist. This all takes us down that old "social contract" path. In order to live within a society, the freedom to do certain things must be limited.
     
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  12. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I think you're confusing society with the state.
     
  13. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Could I not say the same thing about the business world? Do they not lust for the fruits of my labor? Do they not seek to control markets and my thoughts in order to get me to spend my money? Have I willfully surrendered my money so the government can hand huge, lucrative contracts to a military industrial group (or any other government contractor) that I don't want to pay for?
     
  14. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    No, not confusing, just going back to the origins. Can any society exist without laws of some sort?
     
  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    No. Business firms offer you goods and services for sale.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I think you're confusing law with the state.
     
  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    That's what I was referring to in the original post when I asked if there are degrees of socialism. One of the biggest reasons I asked about this was the fact that politicians and the media are using the term as a singularity.
     
  18. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    And that makes it bad. Really bad!
     
  19. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Do they not have those goods and services because of those who work for them?
     
  20. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Are you thinking of that as an either/or kind of idea? I should have been more clear. Total individualism means you don't have to consider anyone else or follow any laws or rules.
     
  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, many business firms pay people to perform work for them. And?
     
  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    No, not confusing. Like I said, if you live in a society, a group of people, there are some kind of rules or laws, and you surrender some amount of freedom. You, as the individual, are expected follow certain rules for behaviors. That means giving up a certain amount of your freedom to do as you please. I use this as a starting point for the idea that socialism is not an either/or thing.
    And the fruits of that labor are skimmed for the profit of the business. In other words, the majority of us in a capitalist society surrender a portion of those fruit, and the assumption that we are entitled to them is not accurate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  23. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    The workers are not producing fruit. They are performing a task in exchange for being paid.
     
  24. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    And now again you seem to be confusing society with the state.

    A state is an organization that claims the use of violence within a given territory. This is distinct from society, which is simply a group of people living in a territory.
     
  25. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    You personally are unable to live without the state. You could do that now.....but dont
     

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