Judge rules Westlake Hospital must remain open

"Better healthcare" is subjective. Also, in most of those countries, the service is so bad and wait times so long, many people are forced to pay for the government system and then elect private insurance to obtain the level of care they desire.

You leave a lot out of your arguments in favor of nationalized healthcare.

 

Feel free to post sources that show us vs anyone in the top ten. While elective procedures and issues deemed non-emergent oftentimes face waits emergency and preventative care do not, and no one has to ask should I get this issue looked at or pay rent this month.

 

I have never had to make those decisions and yet my private healthcare providers immediate service, on demand, when I desire it. So how am I going to benefit from the nationalized healthcare plan?

Im not.

This is being pushed and forced on me so other people can get healthcare. The reason it is being forced on me is because you need my participation in order for it to be financially feasible.

So all if your justifications really have nothing to do with me, but you expect me to either give up on the great service I currently get, or pay more for supporting your nationalized plan and a private plan to maintain service.

No thanks.

 

So zero sources. Ok...

Congratulations, you belong to one of the three groups that are against national healthcare; the “it won’t effect me so screw everyone else” (apparently where you fit), the “I am making profits under exploiting the current system”, and then the “I am too stupid to realize this would greatly benifit me and my family but it’s socialism caus Fox News says so”. At least your stance is biased on greed and not stupidity. I guess.

Most of the healthcare proposals would lower healthcare across the board, we currently pay close to what Canadians pay while receiving only a fraction of the benefit. They also don’t have the largest and most expensive military on Earth by a factor of 10 and have been much more financially responsible with their social plans investing than we have.

I am glad that you are so secussful you don’t have to worry about major illness or your health plan canceling because of a loophole they founds, millions of Americans do not have that luxury — I would say think of the greater good of all Americans and the strength of the country but you have made it abundantly clear that only you are important.

 

That's what happens when the payer mix turns to **** government reimbursement. People lose jobs.

 

You want me to post sources? Ok, great, but I doubt you will accept these.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/art...-canadas-health-care-wait-times-are-the-worst

So... even countries with a nationalized healthcare platform boost short wait times when paid for by private insurance. Otherwise, its ****.

And you fall into the typical social programming mindset that the collective is more important than the individual. Its not. Liberals like yourself have been advocating the benefit of collectivism over individualism now for decades, and all it has gotten us is more people dependent on others.

Collectivism sucks. End of story.

Its the entire reason why the founders of this great country instituted the policies of liberty at the individual level. My priority for my investment goes something like this:

1. My family
2. Myself
3. My friends
4. My community
5. Everybody else

What you are telling me you want to FORCE on my, is to prioritize number 5 above all else. In fact, thats the only way that your plans for society work. What you fail to see is that people are inherently selfish. They have a list of priorities like I established above. Even if you force them to prioritize the collective over the individual, you can't force them to be effective. Meaning, we lose the motivation people have to improve themselves and others through the prioritized list.

In short, your agenda is extremely short sighted and idealistic at best.

At what cost. This goes back to the idea that nothing is free. You don't get to reduce costs and maintain service. That isn't how reality works. You claim that I have something to gain by supporting our current system, I am sure you have something to gain by supporting the Nationalized Plan, and I am also certain that your motivations care very little what those sacrifices mean to me.

Their system sucks. Sorry, it does. It absolutely blows. So for more money, we can get a system that is terrible compared to what I currently pay with rationing, long wait times, etc?

I won't get into this debate with you related to spending. If we weren't protecting half of planet earth, we wouldn't need that much spending. Thats for another conversation.

That isn't a luxury bud. That was planned. I made the decisions and took the steps to ensure that I was protected, that my family was protected. Those decisions were SACRIFICES, not luxuries.

*******n skippy. Your line of thinking is almost fully responsible for the **** condition most of our society is in being unable to at least sustain themselves.

 

Obamacare did what it was supposed to do.

 

Why would I not accept a single article on what times? Canada’s system has problems as do all systems but the most efficient and most cost effective systems (with the lowest wait times) all have national healthcare systems. As per your article.

It isn’t ****, you picked a single example for wait time. What do you believe is worse, having to wait on a procedure but not go bankrupt or havenit now but lose everything? As per your above article:

• Ability to get after-hours care (without resorting to visiting an emergency department): second-worst

Guess who is the worse...

Change healthcare to roads or schools or any other example that benifits society and you get the same result. I’m sorry that you feel restructuring our obscene healthcare system driven only by greed is putting everyone else about yourself and your family but it isn’t. You and your family are party of the system and will benifit accordingly. I agree you should still be able to buy supplemental insurance like many countries offer to their national program — but we need a competitor to the current system. A public option.

I will gain the same as you with a public option. Less probably.

If their system sucks I wonder what you feel ours does seeing we rank below them in almost every conceivable positive metric. If everyone had your line of think (only “I” matter) none of us would probably exist. You act like your healthcare will suffer because we get costs and efficiency under control. Other nations have shown that simply isn’t the case.

 

The cost of healthcare does not magically go away, and the people that cant or wont pay a premium cost now will just pass the cost onto everybody else.

I'll tell you what. I'll buy into you system when the costs of a person's insurance are deducted by the government from any wages they have FIRST.

But we both know that the goal here isnt getting everybody into an equitable insurance pool. The same poverty line exeptions, subsidizing, reduced or eliminated premium options will exist.

All this is, like most other collectivist agendas, is asking everybody else to fork up a cost because of some obscure "it will help everybody" collectivist non-sense.

So, do we have a deal? Healthcare is so imperative, the premiums for the shared costs are mandatory or... I dont know serve jail time?

 

I am perfectly fine with the public option being deducted directly from any source of income, including social security, welfare, food stamps, employment, capital gains etc. I don’t think the answer is jail — we already have the highest incarceration rates in the world and they would just be provided those things anyway — but do agree that people that can carry their own weight but don’t should be placed into a government mandated low skill position and refusals severely penalized or cut out of the system entirely.

I don’t agree with freeloaders in the slightest but I do think we should care for one another if we are able provided they are willing to contribute to society.

 

The city/county/state is free to put a public health clinic in there. There is already public health care why would require we ALL go on public health care?

 

Like is the judge going to tell all the suppliers, and utilities to take a hike they have to still supply the hospital even though it can't pay them? Will the judge tell the workers they still have to work even though the hospital can't pay them? How can a judge force investors to keep their money in a losing proposition?

 

Hey those top 1/10% will just pay for it, let's just tax them more on top of free housing they should pay for, free college they should pay, free food they should pay for, free parental leave, free retirement and on and on and on. They are just a magical endless stream of money!

 

Health clinics provide basic services.

&

Economies of scale.

 

about US healthcare
there are a few reasons alot of europeans love to visit the country to see America once in their lives but most would never move there.

1 alot of guns
2 healthcare stinks unles your rich in wich case its super
3 howmuch payed vacation do you guys get i heard like 10days total ?
4 stuppid and overprized education(again good if your rich)

atleast thats the general feeling you get if you ask it here

 

I have actually always said that I am ok with a new insurance group plan that is offered through the government, open to all citizens, and provided by private insurance carriers. But the sticking point is paying the premiums. Healthcare is expensive, even in other nations. Making people not dead, when time says you must die costs a lot of money.

It wouldn't be very long after deductions from revenue sources occur, that people would start screaming that they have to choose their health or housing/food. That is the culture that we have cultivated.

 

Convince everyone to shutdown all the hospitals and clinics and doctors offices and require everyone to go to a government clinic then......