Christian florist v. homosexual couple in WA

Which is you saying it was changed. That’s why I corrected you.

 

I know right. Now they are all uppity and wanting equal treatment under the law. DISGUSTING!

 

Read the SCOTUS opinions posted here, the specifically state religious opinion must be respected whether or not YOU agree with it or not.

 

No scotus ruling has held that belief in imaginary entities exempts anyone from the law. Sorry.

What the baker case ruling states, is that they baker can’t be forced to make a product they otherwise wouldn’t make. They can not refuse to sell a cake off the shelf. They can refuse to make something they otherwise don’t Make.

 

No reasonable person could extract that from my post. No one is suggesting business owners do anything different than they normally do. Just do it for everyone, or remove legal protection from having it done to them.

 

Christians cannot legally be denied goods, services, employment, or housing based on their religious beliefs. They want to have their cake and eat it too. (See what I did there!)

 

We do need a more meaningful case. Cakes and flowers are all we have so far.

 

The SCOTUS wouldn't stoop to your negative language, they did clearly say religious views must be respected, per our Constitution.

Irrelevant, they bakers never refused to serve gays, only to participate in something that violates their conscience.

 

What a strange way to word something. The question is whether a business should be allowed to discriminate = choose to not serve some one -- not choose who their customers are.

The question is one of legitimacy of authority
1) what is the legitimate authority of Gov't ?
2) does this situation merit Gov't intervention ?
3) Is the liberty of the individual the same as that of a business ?

If you do not know the answer to question 1. 2,3 are not going to make sense.

So .. what is the legitimate authority of Gov't and what are the limits to this authority ?

 

Being a pastor requires one to follow the tenets of one's denomination. That may mean not marrying divorced individuals or others whose unions may be proscribed. Such exemptions are codified in law.

Bakers who serve the public are not governed by any such sanction, and none belongs to a sect that can cite commandments regarding whom he can or cannot serve. He cannot say, "No, you cannot have a cupcake. You are a divorced person!"

Christian bakers routinely bake for the public without discriminating. When someone open a bakery, does that license him to discriminate based upon race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or other trait? No, it does not, no more than operating a lunch counter empowers one to exclude individuals based upon race.

There were times when everyone was forced to venerate the Roman Emperor and pantheon of gods, not just Christians. Usually, Christians and others were allowed to freely worship their favorite gods as well.

If a baker, Christian or otherwise, may arbitrarily refuse to provide services based upon racism, laziness, blasphemy, abortion, adultery, alcoholism, or sodomy, I am aware of no such discriminatory license under law. Christian bakers routinely serve a broad spectrum of the public without investigating such personal information before providing their service.

 

Yes, respected. Those views do not permit you to violate the law. Sorry.

Not irrelevant. It’s the central legal principle involved here. Bakers can’t refuse to sell a product they otherwise normally make. Only one they don’t normally make.

 

I have never heard that before, but I do feel that it is reasonable to want equality. Homosexuality existed before religion and I don't think one belief is superior to another.

What if they were super hot lesbians?

 

Some people absolutely want to deny service to black people. And Christians. And Hispanics. And Asians. Is it tyranny to force these business to interact with people they dislike or does it only apply to gays.

As for handicap persons. Companies have to design their entire buildings around making them accessible as per the ADA. Building ramps. Pool lifts. Elevators. Bathroom area requirements. Should businesses be able to refuse service to them? Or do you feel a flower arrangement is more burdensome?

 

I remember Bill Maher likening godless Communism under the Soviet Union to a state religion. He finds an acorn once in a while.

 

Are you saying that not wanting to participate in a same sex wedding isn't at least BASED on a doctrinal proscription?

 

Are you saying that there is some doctrinal proscription from which a religionist so disposed can claim the right to arbitrarily discriminate against law-abiding fellow citizens?

Christian bakers routinely serve the public without trying to concoct such excuses every day.

 

They should have tried a Muslim florist. They are well known for their tolerant views.

 

I don't guess I understand what you're saying here. A bakery that won't make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple no matter who they are being forced to do it would be business owners doing something different than they normally do.

I don't think there's a law requiring anybody to produce any custom good for somebody if it was to go against their beliefs.

 

"I work at a squeegee factory in Lafayette, Louisiana, and my religion says
I don't have to make no squeegees for that car wash in Chattanooga, Tennessee
'cuz it services rented limousines without making sure what kind of weddings
they're bein' hired for and, if they're not very careful,
I could go to hell for makin' squeegees, and end up with devils
pokin' my bum with red hot pitch forks!"​

 

The act of baking does not change based on who the customer is. The baker was not asked to produce a product or service he would not have produced otherwise.

 

You will notice religion and religious practice is a protected class by not only the First Amendment to the Constitution as a constitutional right but also Codified in the Civil Rights Act. Alas LGBT is simply not there. That puts them in the same category as folks with red hair or thick mustaches and bushy eyebrows.

 

It is for individuals too who have a valid, sincerely held religious belief. See the 1A.

Do you think those nuns who objected to Obama forcing them to be involved in abortificants had a case? Thankfully Trump gave them relief.

Yes they do, have you not heard what the Bible says about sodomy?

You miss the point, they DO serve everyone, they just don't facilitate gay weddings.

They refused, on pain of death, to worship other gods, and to pretend Christ was just another one.

Focus, please, we're talking gay weddings, not exactly a secret when Tom and Bill insist the baker use his artistic talents for such an abomination.

 

I absolutely love the bushy eyebrows example. Maybe one day we will have a more meaningful example than cakes and flowers.

 

The act of customizing a wedding cake does.

so he wasn't asked to produce a customized wedding cake? I find this doubtful seeing as winning cakes are often customized because they're celebrating the union of two people. Just like a birthday cake would be customized.

 

Maybe you have more info than I. What did they want on their cake that is different than all the other cakes sold?