Ask your difficult questions of an Atheist.

FoxHastings said: ↑
And I'm saying that is WRONG.

IF a person hires anothet person to commit murder thern BOTH are charged.

Try it if you don't believe me...hire someone to kill someone else and tell the judge YOU didn't actually do the actual murder , you ONLY hired someone else to todo it and it WILL be Happy Jail time to YOU ….after the judge and jury stop laughing …


Now , the next issue of "punishment", a different issue from that one.

IF a law is passed banning abortion allegedly because abortion is murder...are you following so far, one step at a time.???

Then abortion is murder.

It can't be NOT murder, or UN- murder or KINDA murder, because the woman was impregnated due to rape.

When people want exceptions made for rape that means they ONLY want women who had consensual sex to be punished for having an abortion.
Which says CLEARLY that they ONLY want women punished because they had consensual sex.

Read this slowly , an abortion due to rape is the exact same procedure and outcome as an abortion due to consensual sex....

The ONLY difference is the conception.

So it is CLEAR that some Anti-Choicers want women who had consensual sex punished for having consensual sex.


Remember, they cannot claim that abortion due to rape is any different than an abortion due to consensual sex.

And if abortion is murder then HIRING someone to do it for you is a CRIME.





Please note: It does.

Why would a law be passed that had NO intention of punishing the perpetrator?

Why make something against the law if it's not going to be enforced? What a ridiculous notion and waste of taxpayer's money.




Why do you keep repeating that? I know and you know it...repeating things certainly doesn't move the discussion along and proves nothing.

I am saying that people who do see it as an exception for rape are hypocrites.

One cannot say "all life is precious and abortion is murder" and then make an exception for murder....that is logic and common sense...




And some laws do make exceptions. ….that has nothing to do with our discussion about the hypocrisy or the FACT that murder is murder..

OMYGOODGAWD!….Are you being deliberately obtuse ...or do you have a certain script you must follow no matter what the other poster says?

No, I STATED it is a punishment to FORCE women to gestate........now I'll leave you to what ever land you are in....




Get back to me If you ever have a point ...or a fact...or something to do with real life

 

Yeh if you are pissed off at your next door neighbor you should be able to wear camo, declare war on him and blow his ass away! lol

 

More word games.

Urge??

The issue is not whether "it can" but whether "it always does".

No, atheism is a position on whether there is a god.

 

Yes, overpopulation is an issue, and I'm sure there are many for whom it is important to have control over family size because of that problem as well as others.

 

Canada has no laws against abortion and pays for them through their healthcare system.

Their population growth rate has remained low, but legalized abortion didn't cause a significant doward spike in population growth.

In general, I'm not so sure population concern is the real reason for ending the use of laws against women.

Also, the number of abortions in Canada has been going down Even for those whose ONLY concern is reducing the number of abortions, writing laws against women is not necessarily the most effective approach.

I just don't believe there is a good argument in favor of these laws - even for those who see this as a religious issue.

And, there are certainly solid reasons for NOT having these laws!

 

Laws are passed in order to deter behaior we don't want to see.

Making it harder to get an abortion is one tactic we have seen for years now - extra requirements on clinincs, attempts to defund Planned Parenthood, etc.

Now, they are creating law to hold someone who performs an abortion liable for murder.

I've pointed this out before. I don't see this as a difficult concept. Harsh abortion laws do not necessarily have to include charges against women directly as individuals if they make abortions essentially impossible to obtain.

I see no indication that the law will not be enforced.

I know you do. But, I'm just pointing out that it is CRYSTAL CLEAR that many see rape and incest as special cases due to the trauma, lack of choice, and mental health impact. I suspect they trade off between the wrong of abortion and the wrong of requiring the woman to carry a rapist's embryo to term. One might note that there are cases of the "father" going to court to obtain parental rights., hoping for court ordered constant contact with his victim, etc.

False. There is no indication that requiring the embryo to live is considered by the courts to be a punishment. Also, I've NEVER heard of a "pro-life" group calling it punishment.

You are accusing others of taking an action (punishment) when there is NO evidence that they are doing what they are doing out of a desire to punish.

 

I asked you to""" Get back to me If you ever have a point ...or a fact...or something to do with real life""' you didn't , you just gave another speech as if you hadn't read nor comprehended a word I wrote.

I've read your speech, I disagree (using facts)….

 

I’m old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in Australia and women used unqualified back yard abortionists, often with fatal results for themselves and often life long medical problems as a result. So, are you Right to Lifers just going to sit back and condemn these women for what you claim is murder ? I see no evidence of Right to Life groups financing adoption or offering to adopt unwanted children either. Having approached members of these groups with requests for adoption funding and being universally brushed aside I have concluded concern for their own salvation is put way ahead of any consideration for others, unless that is they’re ‘unborn children’.

 

You still cliam punishment even though I've pointed out that is a false accusation.

 

Legal abortions always end in a fatality. And they also cause long term medical problems for the woman including breast cancer.

Nonsense, here in the US pro-life groups will take every single child saved from abortion, and provide aid to the mother.

 

Cool! Do you have a link for that?

I do like the idea of switching from laws against women toward addressing the reasons women choose abortion.

 

As per another point on this thread, do you know of any pro-life groups who see gestation as punishment?

 

You still claim it's a false accusation even though I pointed out it isn't. Just because you didn't understand the facts doesn't mean it was false.

 

*************

 

That CRAP about abortions causing breast cancer was debunked years ago...

Baloney!

There are many kids waiting for adoption...where ARE those "pro-life" groups???

"Provide aid to the mother""??? When? Where? How?

Righties , who are anti-Choice, are the ones trying to cut funding to Welfare, WIC, SNAP and other entities that aid CHILDREN..

 

They all do.

Taking away a person's right to their own body is punishment...and they committed no crime.


FORCING someone to gestate is punishment....did you think it was a reward???


Allowing rape victims to abort ( commit murder according to Anti-Choicers) but forcing pregnant women who had consensual sex to gestate is punishment.

Why do they think a raped woman should be allowed to commit "murder" ???

 

No, you haven't identified ANYONE who is "pro-life" and believes gestation is punishment under any circumstances.

 

All asked and answered, including the last sentence. You just ignored it.

 

OHHH, now you're twisting it around to "gee, gosh, no "pro-lifer" has said it's punishment so, gee willikers , it must not be true..."""

DUH, of course they aren't going to say ,"we want to punish women for having consensual sex"..Goodgawd, use you head!!

I was the one who explained why they are punishing women for having consensual sex...and YOU have never proven otherwise...you just gave a C&P'd speech...

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
They all do.

Taking away a person's right to their own body is punishment...and they committed no crime.


FORCING someone to gestate is punishment....did you think it was a reward???


Allowing rape victims to abort ( commit murder according to Anti-Choicers) but forcing pregnant women who had consensual sex to gestate is punishment.

Why do they think a raped woman should be allowed to commit "murder" ???

No, you NEVER answered why a rape victim should be allowed to commit murder....and you're the one ignoring facts...but I'm very used to Anti-Choicers doing that ...

 

You were charging pro-lifers with using gestation as punishment. It's up to you to support that. I see absolutely NO support for that charge, and thus I see it as an impediment in any discussion.

 

Your definition of death, not mine. And when medical problems due to pregnancy are diagnosed bugger the risk to the mother?

Not in Australia and that’s from extensive personal exprerience trying to organise adoptions.
In the end though you have no chance of changing my views on this subject so may I suggest your efforts at evangelism should be from now on directed at others?

 

yes I am pointing out their word games, quoting opinion as fact and that you accepted urge as God, acceptable to support your position. I found it humorous frankly.

Atheism absolutely is a religious position. God issues are always without question religious, feel free to bring it if you have it!

 

Clever.

However there is a big difference between a religious position and a position on religion.

 

How is it atheism can be a God issue when atheists claim there is no such entity to have any issues attached? I’m missing something here.