If the Filthy Palestinians would just understand they are 2nd class citizens and be happy for whatever the chosen ones tell them is best, then things could go forward.... After all, how could anyone that is not Jewish expect to be treated as such... Like a human when you are nothing more than an APE to them...
I tell people, "If you are going to establish an opinion based upon the Internet then be honest with yourself and find the alternative opinion - and take that on board as well. And for you - read the Jewish POV. A good site for this is https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myths-and-facts-the-refugees an example: MYTH "The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians." FACT Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the Arabs. The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.6 By the end of January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal their borders against them.7 On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."8 Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 194 excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.'"9 Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents. "They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks."10 John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: "Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war."11 Contemporary press reports of major battles in which large numbers of Arabs fled conspicuously fail to mention any forcible expulsion by the Jewish forces. The Arabs are usually described as "fleeing" or "evacuating" their homes. While Zionists are accused of "expelling and dispossessing" the Arab inhabitants of such towns as Tiberias and Haifa, the truth is much different. Both of those cities were within the boundaries of the Jewish State under the UN partition scheme and both were fought for by Jews and Arabs alike. Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: "We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch their property."12 Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al-Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish areas around Mt. Carmel.13 On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that "every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."14 In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause.15 By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left.
You first mistake is there never was in the past a Palestinian State. At least in Israel region. So, Jerusalem is a town in Israel, period. Why should Israel give up part of a city? Especially Jerusalem?
That 700,000 figure for "refugees" seems to go up all the time. It would be good if we could discern who was a "refugee" and who had: fled the fighting were driven out from strategically important towns were forced out by Arab soldiers raping and looting were wealthy enough to leave of their own volition were forced out by the Mullahs (majority) were blindsided by Arab propaganda Those who left because of the Mullahs should stay out. They were urged by the Israelis to pay no attention and stay in their towns. As for the others, I feel they have rights. There are two REAL ISSUES with these cases though 1 - Palestinians lost a war they started. Losers don't make the demands 2 - Half a million Jews are refugees from seven Arab countries and have no right of return 3 - Arabs don't come from Palestine, the Jews do. 4 - Palestinians DO accept Israeli peace and land offers - after they have been withdrawn (common Arab complaint against Palestinians) 5 - Palestinians don't want Right of Return and Six Day War boundaries etc. - they want all of Palestine back. 6 - Palestinians won't do a deal when they can internationalize the conflict - at the risk of a global nuclear war (think 1967 and 1973) better stop, got to go....
I consider the JVL about as unbiased and honest source of information as I did Camera or aipac. Of course your version is a completely sanitised version of the brutal reality made for Israeli and American consumption. It is as if the Haganah pogroms or massacres like Dier Yassim never happened and the Jewish militias were running around Palestine handing out flowers and hugs. And I think you know the truth and this is just another attempt to astroturf it over. It's a long weekend here and I'm mot going to spend it point by point rebutting your post but I do think it us worth at least trying to bring out the truth of the brutality of Israel's cleansing if Palestinian territories starting in 1948. So if this thread is still alive next week, let's explore how valid any of the claims JVL is making are and the truth of how the occupation came about. JVL......lolthis was the reality. I bet bibi says the haganah were handing out flowers too.
Tellingly, the story of Dier Yassim is that it is celebrated by Palestinians and mourned by Jews. I saw mourned because it allowed Israel to be portrayed in a way it sought hard to avoid. Yes, there were terrorist groups in Israel during the British days, and fighting the Arabs. But it ought not to reflect upon the general Jewish ideal of Arab and Jew living together peacefully. It was a paramilitary group who were not acting govt. policy. Israel made an issue of the massacre, and apologized to Dier Yassim's govt - which was Jordan. Dier Yassim was not like America or England with fire bombing campaigns. A win for the Arabs in 1948 and 1967 would have seen Dier Yassims happening in every Jewish town - as govt policy.
The occupation came about with the expulsion of the Jews after three Roman wars. Rome brought in foreign people to occupy Israel. Rome renamed Jerusalem to Capitol Aelia Capitolina and renamed Israel to Palestine. Arabs became a majority after the rise of Islam. The land belonged to Turkey but was claimed by Jordan, Egypt and Syria - mostly. Many more Arabs flocked to Palestine when the economy began growing in the early days of Jewish farming and light industry. But they didn't like more Jews migrating to Palestine, and refused various negotiations by Britain, the UN and the Jews. The rest is history.
Yes, The land was renamed, not the Arab people. There are no “Palestinians.” There are Arabs and there are Jews in the land of Israel which came first. How the land was given to the Jews was a miracle by almighty Jesus Christ as a sign of fulfillment of a prophecy. Arabs need to agree to live peacefully and accept Israel. They have no claim to any land inside Israel including Jerusalem or any part of Jerusalem.
That is such horsesh1t. Israel has nukes and a well-trained military. Nobody will seriously threaten them beyond posturing. This is Trump doing Israel's bidding and I don't want to pay for it.
You can fight a nuclear power enemy. Nations do it against the USA today. It's called "asymmetric warfare." The main weapon today the Palestinians use is international pressure. Without it Fatah and Hamas would have to negotiate. It is thus that "we" of the West have compounded the issue. Unlike Germany and Japan, "Palestine" never conceded defeat and thus hasn't been able to start all over again with its society, industry etc..
They will with the Jewish survivors. After a thousand Dier Yassims the survivors will be treated as second class citizens. You wouldn't see any multi-lingual signs in Israel any more - just Arabic. And no Jews would weep at their wailing wall, let alone worship on their temple mount.
The only state the Palestinians have a right to is the one that every individual has a right to, one that protects freedom of thought.
Gaza is a part of Egypt. I can't understand why the Egyptians hate their Bedouin brothers. Galillee and the Golan hights are Israel.
Israel should have left the West Bank as part of Jordan. they would have a lot fewer problems if they did
This war of Arabs against the Jews have been going on for the last 100 years. Huge number of 'deal' were suggested by the west and had been rejected by the Arabs. One whould think the west would have learned by now, there is no deal, the war is the end not the mean. But no one is learning. New people come all the time with zero historic perspective and think they will solve it. What they try to solve is the symptom, not the problem. In endless war, you just have to wistand it until the other side it too tired to fight or run out of resources. Any deal suggestion only add more insentive to the Arab war lords, they think the breaking point of the Jews is close. Israei Jews have been waiting for 2000 years to have their state back, the can wait a couple of centuries for the Arabs to stop attacking them.
Wow... was that Jordan pre-1967? Interesting. Under Turkish rule there were no nations as we know them in this area. People talk about how "colonial powers carved up the Middle East" but what else was there - just Turkey?
Good points. Underscoring lots of this is Islamic humiliation that their people are poor and backward, and Christians are rich, free and prosperous. Lots of this friction becomes focused upon Israel - this tiny nation represents one tenth of one percent of the Arab and Persian Middle East. The Jews aren't going anywhere. This is their home. Should they fall to Islamic forces then no doubt Israel will discharge all her nuclear weapons at all the Islamic centers. We should know that this Gaza and the West Bank business is just a symptom of much bigger things.
This is not a deal but the US confirming illegal colonisation with a large Bribe which would not be accepted and which could never result in reconciliation. A silly little publicity stunt trying to use the rise of the far right to support the colonisation of Palestine and the Holy Sites of the 3 Abraham faiths by Israel all in order to allow Christian Zionism to create Armageddon and hence the end of the worlds Jews. Interestingly the only Arab state which is opposing this is Kuwait and the reason for this is because it is semi democratic. Being semi democratic it needs to listen to the will of the people, the others it would seem just have their own interests whether that is a promise from the United States to destroy Iran so that the arab states do not start thinking again of democracy or just greed. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/06/...gulf-monarchies-complicated-ties-with-israel/