Rue, Britannia <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

I can get a seat from JFK to Gatwick for $150. JFK to SFO is six hours.

Of course. My comment about the ease of travel to the UK and Canada were along the lines of assuring Americans who might read my post that they can easily and safely visit the UK and Canada. The cost to a New Yorker to get to the UK is on a par with going to the US West Coast. Still, easy or not, Americans will stay at home.

Sometimes they say something intelligent.

It's not quite that simple, but I think you have the idea.

 

The Tories took us in in 1971 by a Parliamentary majority of 365-244. Ratified by '73.
Labour tried but failed to take us out in '75 in the UK's first ever referendum 67.5% - 32.5% in favour of remaining.
The Tories signed the Maastricht treaty in '92 confirming closer political ties and moving away from a purely economic union.
Labour refused to join the single currency in '99.
The Tories instigated a referendum on whether to stay in 2015 with both parties officially on the remain side.
Tory rebels heading the leave vote won by a tiny margin.
The Tory leader who had promised to impliment the decision quit the day after the vote. As did the leaders of the leave campaign because they had no plan on how to leave.
The next Tory leader promised that leave meant leave but couldn't agree with Parliament what leave meant. She was then forced to leave because still no-one knew what leave meant.
The current Tory leader made a promise he couldn't keep, planned for a no-deal Brexit while saying he'd rather have a withdrawal agreement and then asked for an election he said he didn't want and couldn't get one because the Labour leader wouldn't vote for one despite saying for 3 years that that was all he really wanted.
Hope that clears it up for everybody.

edit vote Lib' Dem' if you value consistency because they are the only ones who have stayed constant or Green if you are fed up with it all and are more concerned with the future of the planet. If you simply hate immigrants vote for which ever new party Farage is leading but hope to god the talentless bufoon doesn't get in or we're all f#cked.

 

The leavers did not anticipate anything. Had no plan at all, still don't.
The UK could get a trade agreement. Some of the foundation for it are in the Brexit Deal.
No deal would make the negotiation rather difficult, the UK owes the EU some 30 billion Euro and so on.
The EU/Ireland will not accept a deal which threatens the GF.

The UK might loose NI, are they prepared for it ?

 

I don't think the No Deal Brexiters care whether they keep NI. May prefer not to given it costs a lot. It is the DUP and other Unionists who are determined to stay in. Indeed they apparently voted for Brexit because they believed that would stop a United Ireland. Johnson is apparently keen on building a bridge between Scotland and N Ireland but that looks very unlikely and I very much doubt Scotland would agree.

and the other thing which should be remembered among all this problem of what to do about N Ireland - the majority of people of N Ireland voted Remain.

 

I wonder. The Leavers had to know GFA would make the UK leaving without a customs union very difficult.

Here's what the border between Canada and the U.S. at Blaine, WA look like.



It doesn't look like this...

How can the UK keep Ireland happy?

Can the UK get along without an EU trade deal? If they can't, then Brexit may be DOA.

 

How can the UK make Ireland happy, by giving NI a special status and the NI coastline the hard border, so to speak a soft unification.

Can the UK get along without a trade deal with the EU, very difficult, its economy has been geared for 40 years being a EU country and its main trading partners are in the EU. Quiet a few international companies use the UK to be in the EU. If the EU advantage is gone, they probably leave. The Japanese car companies are already pulling out, Ford has warned and Vauxhall, too. Vaux is a former GM subsidiary and belongs now to PSA of France.

Leavers just want to leave, they never ever thought about the ramifications, like GF, or the money the EU had already given the UK for some contract work ( so to speak ) and with Brexit those contracts are forfeit, the 30 some billions.

Nobody ever talked about those problems in the UK, till the Brexit negotiations started.

 

triple post, how did that happen

 

triple

 

That is the true dilemma, NI vote for remain. But could become a hot spot for new violence.
One way which could solve it, keep the soft border on the Island and make the hard border along the NI coastline. But would that go along with the Unionist and DUP, or would that create a new source for violence.
The EU could keep some of its subsidies for NI farmers to sweeten the deal, the possible loss of those subsidies is a serious problem for the farmers.
But that would probably not fly in the UK, because they fear it would encourage Scotland.
It really puts the UK into a bad position. If they blow up GF, no ratification of a trade deal in the US congress. Hard Brexit will leave serious hard feelings within the EU, which would make a trade deal very difficult, in the short term, my opinion, impossible.

 

A border in the Irish sea isn't going to calm the fears about the Irish economy losing its export trade to the UK either.
It's still a barrier to trade and we buy a lot of Irish lamb and beef.
There are no winners wherever you put it.

 

That is correct, their will be no winners. A Brexit will only produce losers. Everybody will loose, the UK, Ireland and the EU.

But who can mitigate those loses best, or who will have to lose the most.
Ireland stands a good chance to become the English speaking gate into the EU and has the support of the 27.

 

Yeah Irish businesses could do well, their farmers not so much.
A return to violence isn't going to encourage businesses to move there though. Chances are we'll just take them down with us if the border problem can't be solved.

 

Look at border crossing at Port Huron, MI. I pretty much flew right through, the stop was just a little longer than a stop to pay for a toll.

 

Is anyone talking about a solution along these lines?

It could take years to negotiate trade deals while the economy is meanwhile suffering the loss of EU activity.

Leavers promised what they so far have been unable to deliver.

 

I have a Nexus Pass that speeds up getting through the border, but the consequences of having a border negatively impact investment and production in Canada.

 

The Unionists seem to have made it clear they will not accept that and were even stating that the GFA said they were to be treated with 'parity of esteem'. There was some suggestion they might consider it if Stormont was given some say in proceedings but last night I saw healines that they would not.

That is where Johnson's idea of a Bridge from Northern Ireland to Scotland comes in. However this is something which has been suggested before and deemed impossibly expensive given that the sea there is believed to be full of mines from WW2. They also have not even bothered to ask Scotland so that looks unlikely.

Ha! Well if Johnson does the same in NIreland as he has said he is going to do in Scotland the farmers will soon be cheering on No Deal. He has offered Scottish farmers £50 million on top of another £160 million which Sajid Javid had already promised. I saw them on the tv with my own eyes a few days ago looking euphoric and saying they were up to a No Deal that Brexit had been held up for too long - or more accurately I saw one of them on tv saying that. (I would imagine as long as they money comes before No Deal)

Johnson is also promising that he is going to return to allowing people who have attended University here to stay working for 2 years later. This is something Scotland has strongly wanted so it looks like he is trying to pull out all the stops.

Yes, I was reading that the Irish PM basically said that would be the position. Assuming Boris does not manage No Deal in some mysterious way we will then have a General Election. I understand the LibDems are going to stand on another Referendum. I think Labour on a changed deal but not sure. Brexit I think would be no deal and I am not sure what the Tories will be but that hopefully will at last get things sorted out.

 

You had to go 70 years Back to throw Something.

 

Well at least we won it in Long Run and pushed you away from european leadership

 

They go away. We had almost Zero in east Germany and now even less because the few got hunted Out.

 

We have free movement with norway and Switzerland. UK can have that with full free movement.

 

There are about 300 crossing points on the land border on the island of Ireland.
I would say that is way more than between the USA and Mexico and the USA and Canada combined.
I shall be visiting my brother in Ballycasey next month, but speaking to him on the phone he reckons the latest idea would be for all to operate a 'blind eye' policy after Brexit.
Not so much brexit in name only, but the Emperor's New Clothes Brexit.
Fine by me, no border means no brexit, will be great to see Farage and Johnson go bright red and pop in those circumstances.

 

Well here is one that was not expected. The Scottish courts have ruled Boris's 'Prorogation' unlawful. Labour and the SNP demanding the recall of Parliament. I have just heard this myself.

Here is a summary of the court ruling.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...082514879f1f77#block-5d78c66b8f082514879f1f77

So there you have it. The Scottish court rules that prorogation is unlawful and the SNP and Labour are demanding that Parliament be recalled!

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...se-no-deal-assumptions-says-leadsom-live-news

 

Poor old BoJo just can't catch a break.

 

Dammit, pipped to the post by under a minute.

 

less than a minute it would seem! The drama continues.