Does this sound insane to you?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...arms-sales-to-ukraine/?utm_term=.e0853ac32078

 

Have the Democrats not said in these hearings that Trump was denying Ukraine the weapons they needed to fight the Russian backed insurgents? Well these links show he did send them weapons to fight them after Obama refuse to send them. Then we also know that Biden refused to give them money for weapons if they didn't fire the prosecuter investigating the Ukrainian gas company and his son. So it would seem Obama and Biden both did what the Left is accusing Trump of doing.

 

So What?

That Link is From 2 YEARS AGO!

Not a Current Event.

Anyway, Guys--I am done here.

Just do your best to follow the Rules of PF (and, uphold the dignity of he Forum).

^Thanks in advance.

Carry on.

 

I take that back a little. There is two big differences. The Left is accusing Trump of holding money up. Biden flat out said they wouldn't get it and Obama flat out refused to give it to them.

 

It would not surprise me if Biden urinated on a bed in Russia as well.....

 

Wrong on all counts!

The funding was NOT coming from the USA. It was an IMF Loan to the Ukraine.

All that the Obama administration did was to threaten withhold the US GUARANTEE to BACK the loan to Ukraine.

NO ONE in the Obama administration received any POLITICAL ADVANTAGE from that hold up.

Your BLOTUS was the ONLY one who would PERSONALLY BENEFIT by FORCING Ukraine to start a bogus investigation into the Bidens and withholding those FUNDS was therefore QPQ.

 

Have you polished your wannabe, badge? What rule number, allows us to chastize members, as though we are mods? I can still remember you rushing in to play mod in a thread I posted in OP/Ed claiming I posted in current events, when i pointed out your error, you doubled down and claimed mods "moved" it

Maybe just post and allow the mods to do what they do. I'm sure if they need help, they will let you know.

 

Oh yes they did. It would have gotten the investigator off the gas company and kept his Son on that juicy paying job. The investigation was on going when Biden threatened to hold the money up, unlike the Democrats want you to believe it was dead at the time. It takes some of the argument off of Trump, saying he held up vital weapons that Ukraine needed to fight off Russian insurgents, when it was Obama that flat out refused to give Ukraine any weapons at all when they asked for it and Trump did give them the weapons they needed.

 

So multiple things to address here:

1. No, the Democrats were not criticizing Trump for withholding lethal weapons specifically, he is being accused of withholding all military aid from Ukraine, and doing so against the Pentagon's advice. Lethal weapons were not the issue

2. Trump is being accused of withholding this aid for his own political gain, as the Justice Department was not filled in on the details of the request to open up an investigation into the Biden family. This request was made unilaterally, and it was directed towards a political opponent of Trump's specifically, and no one else. In fact, the Burimsa company was never even mentioned by the president, only the names of the Biden family.

3. There isn't any Democrat being accused of unilaterally using executive power (against the Pentagon's advice, and without the Justice Department's knowledge) to open up an investigation into a political opponent. Some have accused Biden of using his executive power to push for a special prosecutor in Ukraine to be fired with the incentive of protecting his son who worked for the Burisma company that was under investigation. However, Joe Biden's efforts were not done unilaterally, both the US State Department, and the US's allies overseas were also pushing for the prosecutor to be fired, but more importantly, the firing of the prosecutor did not stall the Burisma investigation. In fact, the prosecutor himself was being accused of stalling the Burisma investigation, and many other investigations. The Ukrainian parliament voted to have the prosecutor replaced for these very reasons, and the Burisma investigation was continued under the newly assigned prosecutor. Let me say that again, the Burisma investigation continued under the newly assigned prosecutor.

The issue here is using executive power for personal gain instead of public interest.

 

They want to say that Trump is in bed with the Russians and kissing Putin's ass. But Obama refused to give Ukraine the weapons, afraid it would make the Russians mad. Obama also pulled missile launchers out of Poland when Russia complained he saw it as an offensive move. When Trump got in, he sold Poland the missiles they wanted. Who is kissing who's ass?

 

Do you mean all military aid like Obama did?


Investigative reporter John Solomon told Sean Hannity Tuesday night on his show that U.S. officials knew in February of this year that Ukraine was reopening the Burisma case. Specifically, they are looking into funds that went from Burisma to Hunter Biden, Biden’s wastrel son. That does kill much of the Democrat whistleblower’s narrative.

“I can confirm to you tonight that the U.S. government had open source intelligence and was aware that as early as February of 2019 that the Ukrainian government was planning to reopen the Burisma investigation. This is long before the president ever imagined having a call with President Zelensky. In fact it’s before President Zelensky was even elected. This is a significant shift in the factual timeline. This is information that was omitted from the whistleblower’s complaint,” Solomon said.

This is information that was LEFT OUT of the whistleblower’s complaint.


John Solomon - New Information Invalidates Essential Whistle Blower Claim
Ukraine decided to re-open Burisma investigation in February 2019. Long before the Trump Zelensky phone call. Information omitted from the whistle blower complaint. @jsolomonReports #UkraineBiden #Burisma


https://www.independentsentinel.com/us-government-knew-in-february-burisma-case-was-reopened/

 

What sounds insane is that you think the two situations are comparable.

Biden was the mouthpiece for a policy that had the support of the entire administration, including his boss. The policy had the support of (and was also being pursued by) America's allies, including the EU. Biden would not gain anything personal from it (nor would his son). Contrary to the RWNJ talking points, the prosecutor was NOT pursuing corruption cases. He was NOT investigating Burisma or Hunter Biden.

Compare that with Trump. He withheld funds against the recommendation of his entire administration. According to sworn testimony, he did so in order to pressure the Ukrainian government to announce an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden. That would not advance any American interest. It would only advance Trump's political interests.

They simply are not comparable. You have drunk the KoolAid.

 

There is only one person who refused to give Ukraine weapons and that was Obama.


What do you mean his Son wouldn't gain anything. No investigation against the company, Biden's Son would still be working there. The Prosecutor says he was.

Trump had already sold/given Ukraine weapons after Obama refused to .

The Trump administration approved the sale of anti-tank missiles to Ukraine on Friday as it continues to fight pro-Russian forces in the eastern part of the country, a move that has angered the Kremlin and signifies the U.S. government's escalating involvement in the conflict.

The decision to sell the Javelin missiles also comes not long after the Trump administration approved a limited weapons sale between American manufacturers and Ukraine of Model M107A1 sniper systems, ammunition and associated equipment.


The only one who refused to give/sell Ukraine weapons was Obama. He didn't want to get the Russians mad

 

Ukraine was a NATO Allie, NATO,(US) had an obligation to help out another NATO nation under attack. Obama refused to do that. Trump did it twice before. Trump said he was holding up aid to try and get other NATO nations involved. But he never mentioned to the President of Ukraine that he was holding up aid and the President didn't know aid was being withheld

 

No there was nothing in it for Biden. The prosecutor was NOT investigating corruption. Was NOT investigating Burisma. The file may or may not have been open, but nothing was happening. Hunter Biden was never under investigation at all. So no, nothing in it for Biden.

And none of what you wrote, even if true, changes the fact that TRUMP WITHHELD MONEY THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED BY CONGRESS, IN EXCHANGE FOR UKRAINE TO PROVIDE TRUMP WITH DOMESTIC POLITICAL HELP.

He finally released the money when his extortion was about to become public, but make no mistake - he sought domestic political help from a foreign government.

 

Wow. Your level of misinformation is astounding. I don't know if you are genuinely misinformed yourself, or if you are intentionally spreading falsehoods.
Try this link:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=nato+member+states&s=g&t=w&iie=1

 

Sneaky weasel words there Marine 1 (are you really a big helicopter that POTUS likes riding in?) Ukraine is not a NATO Member, and the only reason it gets support from the West is that the Ruskies have ambition there. You used the word 'ally.' When did Ukraine ever become part of any Military operation in support of the defence of the USA or any other Western Nation?

 

Biden is kaput. Lefties should take notice.

 

Which one is this?

 

What would happen if Ukraine joined NATO - Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com/this-what-would-happen-ukraine-joined-nato-2017-7
In order to join NATO, Ukraine also cannot have any territorial disputes, which it does in Crimea and the Donbass, an eastern area of the country where Kiev has been battling Russian-backed ...

 

Well your right Ukraine isn't part of NATO, they put into join but the new President at the time wanted to remain non aliened.But they do have sort of a cooperative agreement with NATO. But I still go by what I said, Trump has already helped Ukraine twice military. Obama turned them flat down.

 

Zero substantiation for that nonsense duly noted FTR!

 

Your extremist rightwing source has ZERO CREDIBILITY!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/independent-sentinel/

 

What I find funny, is the Dems want to elect Biden for doing almost the same thing they want to impeach Trump for. They have Biden down on video bragging about it and from what I heard, Trump never brought up aid and the President of Ukraine didn't believe aid was even being held up. Trump said he was holding it up to try and pressure some more of the NATO nation to do their part. Now many might not believe that, but they would need some kind of proof to show it isn't so.

 

Prove it wrong