Religious discussion

The Jesus character didn't get the name Jesus until 1631 AD. He might have lived before then but his damn name wasn't Jesus.

 

It seems you have misunderstood. Our humanity, including our experience of pain and injustice as bad, are the source of our deserving to be the recipient of morality. Those aspects of humanity have not changed lately. They may change on evolutionary time scales, but they haven't through human history. The changeable aspects, such as the ones that have made people pillage, are not in the same category.

The humanity is more or less constant, what changes is our interpretations. This is no more of a problem than the fact that people's interpretation of God and his commands change over time. With the possible exception that one can lose one's belief in God altogether, whereas no matter how your opinions change, you're unlikely to start believing that humanity doesn't exist.

Our humanity hasn't changed significantly though recorded history. In fact, the relevant parts of our humanity (our deserving of being the recipient of morality etc.) was probably not the last thing that has changed, and over time in evolution, it evolved gradually (which explains why killing a dog for no reason is evil, but it may be more evil to killing a human for no reason).

It doesn't seem so to me. If Stalin believed humanity caused the right to not be tortured, how could he come to torture humans?

 

Just as "science" is an "invisible" thing to you because you depend on men and women to convey findings when you trust their true motives which you know nothing about. You take it on faith. It seems logical for you to do so. I too take certain things on faith for the same reason. I believe we are all "adults" here.

 

There is no evil in the Holy God who created all things. Evil exists because the definition of "Love" requires liberty of choice. That makes it "fun" for us, doesn't it?

 

Instead of isolating quotes, I just want to make a general reply to your statement.
I do believe there is a "selective process" that God has placed in "order". I do not accept the concept of "evolution". Evolutionists, even as far as social development goes, always assume things "evolve" for the better. Logically speaking, for "chance" to exist, there would be a 50% opportunity for things to digress and it does. Humankind has not "improved" it's position from the beginning save for the individuals who have taken upon themselves to act on behalf of a Loving God who Loves "unconditionally".There are countless examples of that I need not go into right now. The idea that a force of "evil" does not exist, with the evidence seen every day is ludicrous. Philosophically speaking, I would always point to the book of "Ecclesiastes" where the repeated behavior and results of human imperfection are put on display from a logical standpoint. "Vanity, all is vanity".

 

Trust then verify. If I thought I was Napoleon the first thing I would do would be to read about Napoleon, his physical characteristics, date of birth etc. Then I would get subjective views from others and consider the consensus. (the Spirit of God does give wisdom to those that earnestly and selflessly seek Him) But before I did these things, I would close my eyes to the world and ask, "God, does my premonition that I see myself as Napoleon in anyway advance your purpose for this world based on the love you have shown me to be both Good and True?" I would remain silent and wait for an answer to prompt my spirit.

 

How can you purport to know what Stalin believed? Are you imposing your own beliefs on others? Do you believe your own idea of what Secular Humanism is contorts to everyone? How can you say your personal ideas of "humanity" transcend to every other individual? How can there be ANY absolutes when each person is part of humanity and has their own ideas?

 

Swenson....I take everything you say on face value. I do believe from my own frame of reference, you have some Godly ideas. There are many others who have Godly ideas that refuse to put faith in Him. Why is this so? Because God puts those ideas in your spirit. That is why all humans have the ability to discern right from wrong if they so choose. Excepting where it originates from is another story. It is a choice. Because we have choice, we have the ability to block those ideas....for some to a greater ability.

 

It's not invisible. There are real effects. Scientists actually find things out about reality. We have medicine, airplanes, computers, and almost everything about our lives because of science. It isn't invisible, but religion is.

 

Oh? Who defined love that way?

 

Again, you justify your belief in god with your belief in god.

 

Whether or not there is truth in their findings....it is invisible, you take it on faith. Quit kidding yourself. You don't know until you see the effects. Then it is reality. Medicine, airplanes, computors are a result of those effects (along with some brilliant engineering)

 

Just as you justify what you believe to be true. You believe in airplanes computers and medicine. So do I. I'm not so sure about the positive effects of a lot of medicine. Even according to their warnings, sometimes there are some pretty adverse effects. When you take it, you take it on the faith it will work fine with no adverse effects....who knows?

 

The fact that you do not accept evolution is no greater a problem for my argument than the fact that many people don't accept Christianity is for yours. In fact, my argument doesn't necessarily rely on evolution, I just provided it as context and to point out that the relevant aspects are older than just societal whims.

Well, I know that the actions of Stalin are inconsistent with the ideas I suggest. I don't know what Stalin thought, but whatever it was, it wasn't "let's make sure no one gets tortured".

The reason we got into this debate was that I suggested secularism for society, not secular humanism. Secularism is the idea that religious (or similar, including humanism) concerns should not be the basis for political or societal structure. I don't think that every Secular Humanist believes what I believe, but the "Secular" part of the description means that it shouldn't matter what we believe, it means that we should construct a society which is fair regardless. Secularism is not meant to dole out moral judgment in accordance with humanism, it's meant to construct a society in which different religions (as well as the irreligious) can coexist. My personal ideas about humanity and whether other people agree is irrelevant.

These ideas were present in a form among the American founding fathers too. The reason they said that there should be no religious test for office is not that they expected their religious rivals to have intrinsic access to unique truth, but because they knew that it was more important that people of different faiths were in on the power than to enact their own religions.

 

Of course it matters what you believe. That is how you hope to achieve some kind of fairness....by what you believe to be true. No man is an island to himself. You talk about "co-exist". How does that happen when you do not establish absolutes? How do you establish them? What is fairness to Occasio Cortez is not fairness to most wage earners. We need to lay down some basic precepts and I believe with all my being, that has already been done. The intelligent Creator did not give us minds and a soul with "responsibility" then walk away leaving us to flounder about in our unbelief.

 

Do you know how computer programs work, I mean starting from electrical signals on up? In other words, they are all based on binary codes, so when you write a piece of software, does somebody sit down and write a long string of 1s and 0s?

 

I remember looking at DOS. Computer science is amazing!

 

What are you talking about... 1631?

Have a link because Jesus was mentioned in the 900's from Latin to English



Ἰησοῦς Iēsous was transliterated to Latin IESVS, where it stood for many centuries. The Latin name has an irregular declension, with a genitive, dative, ablative, and vocative of Jesu, accusative of Jesum, and nominative of Jesus.
Related names: Joshua, Yeshua, Isa
Word/name: Hebrew

Wikipedia › wiki › Jesus_(name)
Jesus (name) - Wikipedia

 

Well, here's my point: someone builds a computer chip to take electrical impulses. Somebody else combined those impulses into a programming language. Other people built modules that did different things, and then developers put those modules together into applications. In other words, it's a chain. So, current climate science or materials science builds upon previous generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants. This is how science works and it is something that I do have "faith" in because it's first principals really only require me to believe in my perception of reality. If I want to believe in santa, that is the start and end. Either I believe or I don't. If I do, I can use that belief to justify anything. if I don't, there is no external reason to believe.

 

Some background for you =

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J

https://www.quora.com/If-the-letter...600-how-did-Jesus-get-his-name-2013-years-ago

Don't you know that the name "Jesus" did not appear in any Bible before 1631? The name Jesus is an alias.

 

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Why would the English name for Jesus appear in Hebrew, Aramaic, latin, or Greek?


The English translation appeared around the 900''s not 1651.

 

You DO believe in Santa......science does not control the sun. It does not control the seismic activity and volcanic erruptions. There are a lot of other things it just does not control. Some have said the earth has 12 more years....we've heard that before. How do you predict things you have no control over? The God I worship is far greater than your Santa. Because you can't define Him , or control Him, or put Him in a box, you say you do not believe in the Creator. I think the idea of something larger than the space between your own two ears makes you feel threatened.
Here's one for you....
I had a prostatectomy 5 years ago. Because they read the margins wrong....they didn't get all the cancer. Went through the radiation. After six months, PSA read .01. That's not bad for most....but I don't have a prostate. 1year later, that doubled. Soon it doubled again. The oncologist told me about a PET scan. He said if you have cancer it will detect even the smallest amount and give the location. Of course, if it is in the bone, there is little we can do. Had the PET scan. When I got the call, I was told I do not have cancer. The next PSA showed it doubled again. See how it is with science? If I didn't have a Savior and Lord, I would go nuts. I am fine. I understand doctors do their best, but they do not know everything. I know the One who does. I'll be fine.

 

Here's one for the mocker....
In the Hebrew culture of 2000+ years ago, women could not be witnesses . Their testimony didn't count for anything. If the whole Christian story is made up, why would the authors invent the fact the first to witness the empty tomb were women? Sometimes it takes an even greater miracle to disprove a miracle.

 

I am with you , I am certain Priscilla wrote the book of hebrews..99% positive

 

You can read about English Bible history at this link = https://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/index.html