Oxford study: millions may have already built up coronavirus immunity

How other countries deal with this problem is their business. I have no say in it at any rate. I try not to worry about things over which I have no control or say. But since I live in America, that means I do have some say on how we respond. And as more evidence comes, the more clear it becomes that this thing will be coming to an end far sooner than we originally thought. It seems increasingly likely that the UK and the US are already in the late stages of the spread of this virus and that herd immunity will be established within the next few weeks instead of months from now.

 

If you're going to be smug, then you should probably be more informed. Just saying.

(New York Times) To Fight the Coronavirus, Cut the Red Tape

(Reuters) Red tape holding up medical supplies, airlines say

(Washington Post) How U.S. coronavirus testing stalled: Flawed tests, red tape and resistance to using the millions of tests produced by the WHO

(NBC) Coronavirus testing delays caused by red tape, bureaucracy and scorn for private companies

 

So. First off, some good articles about the situation at hand. Some about the failures of the FDA and CDC, some about the longstanding bullcrap about how many Drs can train per year.

That said, not a single one of them talks about the Medical supplies necessary for day-to-day medical needs. Gowns, IV Bags, Respirators, Ventilators, etc..etc..

So perhaps rather then acting like I'm uninformed, you'd be best to actually read what I'm writing, and responding to that, vs making detours into other discussions.

 

You don't have a say in the policy decisions of other countries? George Soros literally crashed a currency, (Thailand's I think ) once because he wanted to personally bet against the government of Thailand by betting against its supply of US dollars. And as far as I can tell, that's not the case. This isn't over, and it won't be over for awhile. Sure it's not a lot of time left for this version of the disease, but that doesn't mean the disease doesn't keep spreading or that emergency precautions go away. Coronavirus mutates and we'll keep dealing with this for a long time. Look at your article, they say that it's shorter but not how much shorter. Why do they do that?

 

When you restrict the manufacture of anything you are in effect price fixing,destroying competition.

 

With what we know the death rate is significantly higher than influenza. We also know this virus is more contagious. It is sweeping through countries taking out many who are old and health frail in one foul swoop within months. There are still months to go so who knows what the death toll will look like. If countries didn’t take action when they did countries would likely have the stench of death in the air.

 

True. The good news, common cold, flu, murder, and car accidents are also down!

 

They absolutely do talk about medical supplies.

And you're the one who brought up supplies in response to what I said even though I never mentioned it specifically.

Fact is, everything I said was true: The most effective government response to COVID has been to cut red tape.

 

No, I don't. And I don't want to have a say either. Each country is an independent, sovereign nation.

Do I look like George Soros to you?

It's coming to an end far sooner than we were led to believe. You should be happy about that, unless you're secretly rooting for a bad outcome.

 

Bottom line - to early to tell.

I guess if your willing to sacrifice your grandma or your mom for Trump's reelection effort, you can claim some grand
breakthrough, but I am not.

 

As opposed to sacrificing millions of jobs and trillions of dollars worth of economic output on an indefinite basis while adding trillions to the national debt?

You're aware that unemployment and loss of income also contribute to increased mortality and morbidity, yes?

 

All fun and games until it's YOUR family that gets hit. My wife is on the front lines of this virus. I'm not willing to sacrifice her so that your 401k rises 5% and Trump gets a 2% bump in the polls.

 

So just ignore the points I made about increased mortality and morbidity because you have no legitimate response.

Ignore the millions of working class people who are losing jobs and incomes.

Ignore the trillions of dollars that are being added to the national debt.

Ignore governments all around the world seizing totalitarian powers that they will undoubtedly abuse in the future.

And just repeat the same emotive talking points that wildly exaggerate the risks posed by COVID.

Yeah, that's the score.

And how does shutting down large swaths of the global economy make her any safer than simply exercising common sense?

I don't care about Trump or his polling results. I care about the severe economic impact that your dangerous and irresponsible fear-mongering is promoting.

 

Not really no. They don't. I read them all.

I brought up supplies because they are part of the reason why the health care system will be overwhelmed, which is the bigger problem then people dying. Which was my overall point.

and this idea of 'cutting red tape' as a bastion of anything is silly. Some regs definitely need to be removed, and some don't. I really hate the generalized 'cut red tape' mentality because each regulation was put in place for one reason or another, some entirely valid and some now. Each reg needs to be addressed on an individual basis because wholesale cuts mean nothing but potential disaster.

 

Interesting,
Iceland's mass testing shows half of COVID-19 carriers have no symptoms
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/eu...ws-half-of-covid-19-carriers-have-no-symptoms

 

So perhaps a conservative method for estimating the number of cases in a given region is to take the number of confirmed and double it.

 

You might be able to multiply it by ten times in some densely populated areas, I don't think anyone knows that answer.

I really am less concerned about the total number of cases as I am about the facts about those cases, who is hospitalized, their ages and previous health related problems or lack thereof, how many have no more symptoms than a common cold, how many show no signs, etc..
I am of the opinion most, if not everybody, will at some time in the future have a positive test result for this virus and thinking it will go away from society because we lock ourselves in our homes for two weeks is not going to prevent it's spread.
A simple test kit that is readily available would do a lot to help define what actually going on.

 

The goal of locking ourselves in our home is not to prevent the spread. It is to slow down the spread for as long as possible.

If this virus requires hospitalization for even 5% of those affected, hospitals will become overwhelmed if 5% of a given population needs its services at the same time.

 

Not to worry. Congress is going to pay ppl not to work. Everyone will still be able to pay their bank loans and rent, and it won't matter when both are raised to the maximum folks can afford because no one will be making anything else to spend money on.

Problem solved!

 

I understand that. I am doing that. I still want more facts to help determine the long term effects of the Wuhan virus.

 

Yeah, no. That's not even remotely a safe assumption to make. Institutions exist that can exert influence on countries. TANFs exist.

Sure why not? Would it matter when it comes to arguing against your assertion?

Or I think that one study on shaky ground doesn't mean that it can be applied different countries. US has more cases of corona virus now than any other country. That might be raw numbers but still. CDC officials think that this will still be an issue going ahead.

 

One of the articles literally has the words "medical supplies" in its title. You're just objectively wrong.

Yes, YOU brought up medical supplies. But MY point was about more than just medical supplies. In any case, the articles I linked to certainly DO discuss medical supplies, so your attempt to shift the focus is moot.

I'm not endorsing such an idea. I'm simply stating a fact: Many of the most important governmental actions in response to COVID-19 have been cutting red tape. This SHOULD start a serious discussion among Americans about the deleterious impact that many government regulations have on our society.

Most federal regulations are the result of corporate lobbying efforts. Any major piece of federal regulation was probably heavily influenced by corporate lobbying. It is a myth that huge corporations believe in "free markets" or even "capitalism". In reality, huge corporations believe in aggressive big government, directed at both their competition and their potential customers. Anyone who thinks federal regulation is intended to protect the "common" man is just naive and ignorant.

 

Americans have allowed their economy to become Zimbabwe because of a virus that kills about 0.8% of people it infects. I thought I was unshockable but I guess I was wrong. I am truly shocked at what Americans are allowing to happen.

 

It's not an assumption. National sovereignty and independence is the legal basis for the international order. National "self-determination" has been the cornerstone of international norms for thousands of years. So while I would certainly encourage other countries to pursue reasonable response, I have no right to make demands on them or force them to do what I want inside their own borders. Ultimately, that is their decision to make. And my decision to make is for my own country. It's only reasonable that each country gets to decide for itself.[/quote]

The correct answer is no.

I do not look like George Soros.

He's a billionaire finance titan and I am just a dude from the midwest.

Well, for starters, there are many who would argue that Soros is a violator of international norms, given his repeated interference with the political independence of other countries. So his behavior isn't exactly evidence that international norms related to self-determination don't exist. All it proves is that some people will try to violate those norms. But I believe in those norms and don't want to violate them. I don't want to interfere with another country's political independence the way Soros does.

You have no grounds for your accusation that the Oxford study is on "shaky ground". None whatsoever.

And I never said it could be applied to different countries. This study is about the UK and the US specifically. It is meant to inform people living in those countries. They need to know that we may have already achieved herd immunity to COVID-19 and that the worst is over. I'm not even saying that's the case, only that they should be made aware of the possibility.

If you believe the US has more COVID cases than China, I honestly don't know what to tell you. There is no way that this virus could spread around the entire world yet fail to spread around the entirety of China.

At any rate, it's more informative to look at RELATIVE figures than ABSOLUTE figures.

In the US, there are approximately 2,500 COVID deaths at last count. That's 0.0008% of the population. And the overwhelming majority of those 2,500 deaths consist of people aged 80 and over. All their deaths are sad and should be prevented if reasonably possible, but preventing their deaths does not justify draconian restrictions on freedom of movement, freedom of association, and freedom of commerce across the entire world, especially when it may already be too late to prevent the widespread infection of COVID.