Had any choice, were the words of another. Having a choice, requires ventilators, to HAVE A CHOICE. Not having any ventilators, makes the choice, let them DIE.
France, has a problem treating, so they put folks on the bullet train, and take them to another area, where they can be treated. We don't, you live or die, according to the area you are taken.
We already covered this; I have no objection to the pros treating whomever they want to treat. The question is, do we collectively back them if they elect to prioritize the young.
Shortage of equipment, staff and hospital beds may mean that someone has to make a decision- it’s called triage.
As time goes on it is going to be discovered that there are more and more shortages of many things. Now it's a shortage of oxygen, without which a ventilator is useless. With few people working and producing there are going to be shortages of all kinds, including food.
And why exactly would society at large be messing with that rather than the medical personnel who have their eyeballs on the patients?
Good question. Does society at large know? Sometimes people expect all the stops to be pulled out even if the attempt to save someone’s life is futile.
I don't understand the question. Surely you're not asking whether society at large is competent to decide whether Joe Blow ought to be triaged out of a hospital bed.
If it's him versus a child (does anyone read anymore?), I will tell him. If he's not a selfish old bastard, he will understand
No, it would be the immediate hospital staff, responsible for rationing care in an extraordinary situation, as permitted by regulations which in turn will be supported by society at large -- if it is mature, realistic, humane, and sane. Look there's no question that dilemmas arise in life. I cited you to the Italian example above, which is no longer hypothetical. If you don't want to face facts, that's your prerogative.
That's not what the OP says. It says society should not give medical personnel the option to treat anyone over 80 for the CV. No you didn't.
A few comments. First, you with to play God? 80 years is long enough? Says who or what authority? Second, many of those that you wish to eject have paid taxes and contributed the the health system much of their lives, benefiting others, and you suggest society should break trust with them. Why then consent to paying taxes that only benefits others? Third, any hospital practices triage during medical emergencies. If you don’t know what that means, look it up. Forth, all doctors take an oath... do you suggest they break their oath? Fifth, the Constitution provides provisions for equality under the law. If we aren’t considered equal because of age, what other criteria do you suggest disqualifies people from equal treatment? Sixth, most heath workers are serving knowing the risks, my hat is off to their bravery, I doubt you’d get many to agree with this notion.
I don't understand why the elderly are being considered trash now by us deciding to just let them die. This American tragedy is playing out to be one that will end very badly if this is how we choose to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. I think we're going to have to go to a Medicare for all health care system after this because our entire health care system is broken. Hospitals will be broke after this. Coronavirus patients incur no health care cost due to the virus, yet cancer patients are forced to pay for cancer treatments.
I thought it was implicit that I wasn't suggesting the entire population of the USA vote on every single triage. I cited the Italian example to you all, meaning the participants on this thread. I doubt that any sensible person seriously questions whether the Italians are rationing care where circumstances so dictate. You can see my post citing the article a few posts above if you really question whether this is happening.
I want society collectively to recognize the occasional necessity of prioritizing care. Your opening sentence indicates you are misreading the OP and you don't understand the dilemma, so I won't read further than that.
I'm a former nurse and former manager of a national oxygen company. If anyone understands the dilemma facing ICUs around the world, I surely do.
That is slander, and you do not understand the dilemma. It isn't hard to grasp if you are aware of the facts in Italiam ICU's. Delete that accusation about me a Nazi. Right now.
Medicare doesn't build, run, staff, equip or maintain hospitals. You think hospitals will be better equipped for disaster when they take a giant reimbursement haircut with 100% medicare rate reimbursement?