It's pretty much all the Republicans have to distract us from their having foisted the Worst President in US History on us. Obama wasn't perfect but he's certainly not that bad except for the fact that he was black and the Republicans had their panties in a wad over the "****** in the White House" from the get go, that being why they ran a flat out racist in 2016
By what possible measure is there that one can say Obama was one of the best presidents? Are you in an alternate universe perhaps?
To begin; the last time we had EIGHT major banks fail at the same time it initiated a decade where a goodly portion of our young men rode on freight cars because towns had signs out saying "keep going, we can't help our own" and such. Obama prevented anything like that and had pretty much restored things by the time he left. That alone puts him pretty high on anyone's list.
Maybe I can help you guys out. If we are nit picking the statements, then Obama DID NOT release his birth certificate BEFORE HE RAN. Why would anyone release their birth certificate publicly for no reason. He DID release a state of Hawaii certification of live birth before he was first elected though. This certificate was released on JUNE 13 2008. After the release many conspiracy theories emerged that the document was fake. Claims like there is no signature, certificate number blacked out, no raised seal, etc... Because the conspiracy theories continued to swell on October 31 2008 the "Hawaii's director of the Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, declares that he and the head of Vital Statistics "have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle, who is campaigning for Republican presidential contender John McCain, says the document is authentic". Even after the election a segment of the population often referred to as "Birthers" still believed that Obama was not born in America. Trump was one of the most well known proponents of this conspiracy. He appeared on TV and in interviews promoting the theory making many claims that he has not proven even to this day. Since the birther movement was not going away the white house on APRIL 27 2011 release Obama's long-form birth certificate. I can't believe that in July 2020 we are still taking about whether Obama was really born in America.
OK, lets discuss. Do you think he committed fraud and what do you think we should do about it? Should he go to jail? Would Barr be willing to make such a charge? Who are the main advocates for this? Are there people in law enforcement or government that would support this. Are there people that have looked at the evidence and believe this is possible or is this just partisan rhetoric? Hey, if you can convince me that we can throw Obama in jail I am all for it.
A number of people/organizations touted Obama as Kenyan-born, for their benefit and His. If this is because of information given to them by The Obama, then yes, He committed fraud and should be treated in the same manner as if John Q Public had some the same thing. These would be state charges.
I tried googling your Kenya fraud claim and I couldn't find anything about it. Is this a real issue? Has there been serious discussion about this accusation? Who are these people and organizations that benefited from this Kenya claim? Better question would probably be who has been hurt by this fraud and to what amounts? Did people or companies lose money and claim that it was Obama's fault. Are there ongoing lawsuits? We live in a very litigious society and I could not find any pending or discussions of lawsuits against Obama for this fraud.
You didn't try very hard. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=obama+harvard+kenya+yearbook
To be fair I was looking for articles or discussions about a potential fraud charges against Obama. What you linked me to were articles about a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by his literary Agency that has a brief bio about Barack Obama stating he was born in Kenya. This might be evidence for the birther conspiracy theories but I thought you wanted to talk about Obama committing fraud. I think in order to have fraud we need victims of the deception and they need to show how they were damaged by this fraud. I scanned through the first couple of links you posted and I do not even see any accusation that Barack Obama participated in this erroneous bio let alone victims claiming they were defrauded. We don't know if the publisher of the pamphlet made the mistake or if it was the literary agent. Is there evidence that this was intentional? Were there financial gains from this? Who would be the victim of this fraud and what have they said about it? I originally asked you if there are people that have seriously looked at the evidence for fraud or if this is just partisan rhetoric? What you linked me to so far is less than partisan rhetoric and to link the bio profile to the crime of fraud would be a gigantic leap. If you have serious evidence that can link Obama to fraud I will gladly consider it but so far we haven't even identified an individual or organization they have claimed they were defrauded by Obama.
If the bio is a result of information the Obama gave His agent, that's fraud. Same applies to his Harvard yearbook bio,. The deception for personal gain, itself, is enough for a fraud charge Not in a criminal case. You're looking at civil litigation - I mean a criminal charge,
OK let go with this. For starters when you are talking about Obama committing fraud, is this the only evidence or is this the best we have. If it is the best we have I am not feeling too confident right now. Second do we have proof that Obama gave his agent this information? How was it communicated in writing or conversation? If it was in conversation they could easily make the claim that the agent mistook a conversation about Obama father being born in Kenya for Barack or just misunderstood something about his family history? Lastly do YOU honesty believe there could be a criminal charges against Barack Obama for this? My knowledge of law is very weak are there prosecutors that have considered this case seriously? Can you point me to some articles or serious discussion from people in government or legal system that thinks this is possible?
Investigations are in order. -Someone- told these people He was from Kenya. If John Q Public mislead these people, he would be charged.
So really what you are saying is we are at the question asking stage of the fraud investigation. Going back to what I asked several times earlier are there any people in government or law enforcement asking these questions? So far you have provided me no evidence that anyone else other than the two of us are even talking about this issue. Also I think if my college year book said I was born in a different country no one would be investigating or charging me with fraud and I consider myself John Q Public. EDIT: Also back in my high school year book I said I loved photography. I reality I don't. I just like a girl in the photography club.
I don't know. I think a healthy level of skepticism is good. I think once the case is presented and people still tend to grasp at minute levels of details to make their case when the evidence against them is mammoth is when is we run into trouble. For example: 1. Did you ponder the idea that Obama was born in Kenya? 2. Consider at what point you stopped believing the theory: (a)Was it when Obama's campaign denied it? (b) Was it June 13 2008 when the campaign release his Hawaii Certification of Live Birth? (c) Was it October 10, 2008 when John McCain tells his supporter Obama is an American? (d) Was it October 31, 2008 when Dr. Kukino declares he has personally seen and verified Obama's original birth certificate? (e) Was it November 4, 2008 when Obama was elected? (f) Was it April 27, 2011 when Obama released his long-form birth certificate? (g) Was it September 16, 2016 when Trump said Barack Obama was born in the USA period? (h) Never. Still believe Obama was not born in the USA? 3. To your question "are we just to assume it was a lie" I think the answer is YES. Once you assume lie you can examine the evidence to the contrary but unless there is incriminating evidence that proves the case we need to assume his claim he was born in America as true. It is kind of like the presumed innocent mantra where the prosecutor has to prove the case. Do you feel that it should be the other way around?
You present a very rational and logical case, ....but...if someone is basically writing your biography, should such a key and basic fact, not be pretty well known?
I am going to assume when you say biography you are referring to the bio info from the Harvard yearbook? I don't know how much fact checking is done for college year books and what you are calling a biography is essentially a one paragraph blurb, but again lets say we enter this evidence of a 1991 yearbook as credible. Don't you think that the preponderance of evidence I listed from copies of the documents posted to testimonials from the doctor and the head of vital statistics that say they have personally seen the original birth certificate in accordance with state policies and procedures far out weighs the yearbook evidence?
I just find it rather odd it says Kenya and that is where the rumors just happen to say...out of all the countries in the world Anyhow, it matters little at this point, just think it stupid that those that were skeptical of his place of birth were called "racist". If you critiqued him at all, that made you a "racist".