How Bad Can It Get: The destruction of liberty and quality of life

Again, ever ran a marathon in a mask? A lot of jobs are very labor intensive. For me, and many others, the mask is NOT a minor change. Don't believe me? Go try and chop wood for 4 hours while wearing the mask the entire time. Tell me it's a minor change after.

I don't think you realize just how big of a change to American life that even the 6 ft rule would be if we really were abiding by it. We are not. If we did, it would double the shipping time of every single product that individuals, businesses, and governmens use. Why? Because when a semi docks, if following 6ft rule, you can't put more than 1 unloader in the trailer without risking Covid. All trucks in the entire country would be waiting at the dock to load/unload for at least double the time with 1 person in the back. Do you honestly think we are doing that? Nope. Too big of an inconvenience and we are expendable...

 

Who is requesting you wear a mask while chopping wood?
I haven’t ran a marathon but I bike regularly and have no issues — like I said, try a ventilated mask, you can barely tell they are on.

I am not, my family is not, my employees are not.
Maybe you need a new employer?

 

This is a fallacy that has been proven time and time again
Here is a quick summary: https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem....ing-of-health/debunked-myths-about-face-masks

I have hundreds more if the Mayo Clinic is involved in some deep state conspiracy and not an acceptable source.

O2 and CO2 particles are smaller than what a mask prevents

I would throw in some childish insult like you tried to do, but you have already insulted yourself enough that it isn’t necessary.

 

And that is a reasonable question; from the studies I have seen, proper mask’s usage, when combined with hand washing or sanitation greatly decreases transmission vectors if one is infected and slightly decreases infection if one is not. Combined the result is a statistically relevant change in transmission rates.

The issue is it requires proper use, which is rare — even with individuals that wear a mask they often do so wrong, not covering their nose or touching it constantly.

 

Can you explain what you mean by a ventilated mask? Thanks.

 

Absolutely!
They have a small port with a filter — typically on the front or side — that allows the easier exchange of fresh air. They don’t really increase CO2 or O2 exchange as the particles can already go through the mask itself but do allow the mask to feel cooler and greatly increase comfort.

 

Cool. Do you have a link to the material in the exhalation valve that makes it easier to pass exhaled gasses but still effectively filters out aerosols?

 

I'm at one of the biggest employers in the world. What's your point? Is it that most companies are abiding by the 6 ft rule while loading/unloading trucks? They are using just 1 person in those trailers? And we Americans have experienced no extra shipping time as a result? Halving the manpower at least, with no effect? What an amazing accomplishment!

 

We have prioritized our employees and customers health as both groups have raised concern, it has cost us some off of our bottom line and changing procedures but we have been able to have only a small productivity loss. Some people have different values in life.

 

I have never used one but will look it up when I am at a computer, my aunt that is a huge trump supporter swears by them though and she will actually wear one.

 

Thanks. Just the manufacturer would do, I don’t mind researching the details. If they actually filter exhaled aerosols and provide more relaxed breathing they must be new and revolutionary. I like to learn new things.

 

I'm not sure what that means. My point is that companies are still using more than 1 person loading/unloading semis, which in such a tight poorly ventilated space is a Covid risk. And they MUST be, because otherwise we would see a massive shipping disruption in all sectors as trucks would be parked for at least double the time. My other point is that Americans are fine with exposing these folks, as long as they get their crap.

 

Seems they are not as effective as non-vented masks: https://www.livescience.com/avoid-masks-exhalation-valves-cdc-recommends.html

 

I agree with you that self-indulgence and selfishness is a very American characteristic unfortunately

 

If they are vented and not using some special filter material I’m currently unaware of, yes, they are basically useless for protecting others.

It’s sad people still think such masks protect others. Here’s a part of one of my posts from May 31, 2020.

 

That is one of the biggest issues with C19 in the US that many other nations are not dealing with, misinformation. Turning this virus into political football has basically murdered hundreds or thousands of Americans and it is met with a collective shrug.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the misinformation problem in the US. I thought it was specific to the US at one point but I don’t believe now that it is. They aren’t talked about a lot, but there are separate groups of people in other countries as well that argue against reality. A while back Australia cracked down on C19 protestors that were very much like ones here.

Another example of a place suffering from misinformation is the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Some of the stuff going on there makes us look like amateurs.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072055599/

I’m convinced more each day the best way to survive this pandemic and whatever comes next is to do our own research and make our own decisions. I don’t have a partisan “dog in the fight” so it seems clear to me neither major political party really cares about us as individuals outside of our vote. They will both tell us what they think we want to hear. Both will bastardize science to gain advantage. As I said to another member this morning, the negative results of using and misusing “science” for political purposes will far outweigh the effects of the virus on our society in the long run. It’s sad because true science has unlimited potential to benefit humanity and our planet.

 

Which brings us to the most salient point that is usually made on the forums, we desperately need a third party. Or fourth, or fifth.

Technology and instant communication could be one of the most beneficial pieces of technology in human advancement but it seems like people have figured out a way to corrupt it. I really don’t see what the gain in spreading medically inaccurate information is though but I am sure someone somewhere is making a fortune from it.

 

I think right now the two major political parties are using inaccurate information about C19 to perpetuate the two party system. They don’t care which side you pick as long as you pick a side. Keeping us divided is the way to divest us of our power (government of, by , and for the people).

They don’t want us to believe we can self govern, but want us to believe we need strong political parties and career politicians instead. All the “only experts” can be trusted and “we need strong leaders” talk is designed to keep us dependent on the existing system.

I fear we’ve made a bed we will have to lie in for quite some time and things will only get better after they get much worse. Oh, yes I agree there are people profiting monetarily as well.

 

Yet there can be no peace or justice WITHOUT eradicating systemic poverty.

Observe the higher incarceration rates associated with poverty.

Trump of course likes to blame poverty in the US on China. He is wrong on that.

But Trump is also cleverly revealing the Achilles Heel of the Dems, when he says: "you (Dems) have been in control of the inner cities for a century, and they are still ***tholes".

And he is correct......

 

That's simply due to the same character flaws that lead people to commit crimes prevent them from getting ahead economically.

 

So that's what you are basing the effectiveness of an economic system on - hope......

I have already explained what happens when a decent pandemic comes along. Your economic orthodoxy gets revealed for the pack of lies it is.

Given a steady (non-growth) population, education's physical infrastructure requirements are more or less in place for each new intake of students. Meaning minimal extra demands on physical resources (until upgrades are required).

But I have already noted problems re the mainstream view of "wealth creation"; profit seeking, "invisible hand", private sector markets are certainly inadequate, or worse, as the ONLY source of a nation's prosperity.

(And it's time for economists to abandon the perpetual population growth model as the source of increasing prosperity...for the lucky ones. Everyone knows increasing congestion, more crowded housing, greater demands on services, both parents forced to work, are reducing the quality of life...except for well-paid professors and CEO's who can afford to escape such matters...)

Correct ...so let's read on and see what you have to say about "risk-taking".

Addressed above: an economy needs both "risk-taking" in private enterprise, AND public (government) intervention in secure social services. The "risk-free" cleaner is an important piece, in the balance between private and public economic activity which in total contributes to the community's well-being.

 

I wrote: "there can be no peace or justice WITHOUT eradicating systemic poverty".

Character flaws may prevent an individual from avoiding or escaping poverty, but but a whole class of people can't be said to possess these character flaws.

Eg, all the great revolutions in history which were based on economic circumstances, like the French, Russian and Chinese revolutions, occurred because a majority of the population were disadvantaged by systemic poverty.

The same applies to the black inner city ghettos in the US today, ie the poverty is mostly systemic, as it is for whites who are living in poverty. There is a vicious circle involved, reinforced by poor education and health outcomes in the ghettos and poor households ("....your schools and hospitals are broken...") DJ Trump in 2016.

Obviously a Job Guarantee is the better way to overcome systemic poverty, since we now know poverty level welfare does not eradicate the ghettos, which is a necessary part of systemic poverty eradication.

Geez...is civil war even a possibility, in the richest economy on the planet?

 

Of course not. If the lower class gets out of line we'll just have the police shoot them.. All nice and legal.

 

(Tongue in cheek response?)

Hmm..the "Law and Order" solution....not a nice look; the US's reputation is already sinking like a rock around the globe...as evidenced by the huge global turnout for BLM.