The Post-Pax-Americana World

https://www.commentary.org/articles/bret-stephens/afghanistan-post-pax-americana/

"It was obvious in 2014 that, barring unexpected leadership in Washington, we were on our way out and that the result would be a strategic debacle for the United States and a humanitarian catastrophe for Afghanistan.

Yet that knowledge did little to prepare me for the emotional impact of our exit, when the humiliation of our surrender to the Taliban was compounded by the shame of abandoning our Afghan friends to a terrible fate. America wasn’t merely a country that would rather lose a war outright than maintain a secure garrison at Bagram Air Base to provide Afghans with the air power, surveillance, maintenance, and logistics they needed to avert collapse. We were also a country that couldn’t quite manage to fast-track the visas of a few thousand military interpreters and others who had helped us, at grave risk to themselves, when we needed them most.

Our incompetence matched our fecklessness, and our fecklessness matched our untrustworthiness. To say this is how great powers fall would be an insult to the great powers of the past, which fell under greater strain, for weightier reasons."

 

Now let's cue the leftist whimpering, whining, and clutching of pearls over a conservative source.

 

The US didn't lose that war. It lost the occupation due to the feckless spinelessness of the Afghani government.

You have to pay attention to history.

 

I was a civilian contractor in Iraq, as a "Senior Trainer" for the "NEW Iraqi Army". There was no nationalism, no patriotism, and no pride in being Iraqi in any of the recruits. Their loyalty was to family and local community ("tribe") only. When we graduated the first Battalion of the NEW Iraqi Army, we faced an out-and-out revolt. When they were told that they were not going to be stationed in their home towns, it took elements of the local American Cavalry unit, locked and loaded, to keep them in line. Then there is the fact that we had to lower standards from marksmanship to first aid to land navigation and all the other basic Soldier skills to allow them to graduate. The unreliable nature of Soldiers in the region, with the exception of radical terrorists, is well known. (Ask anyone who was in Desert Storm about the song "Onward Christian Soldiers" being the most popular song for the Muslim members of the Coalition.) Anyone on active duty, from Private to General, knew that the Afghan Army wouldn't last through the first shots fired after we left.

 

It sure doesn't feel like a win to me. When I see us abandoning so many who helped us in the conflict, not to mention the Americans left behind, I can't call it a win. I predicted it would fall almost as soon as we left. I'm sure the administration knew, even though they claimed they didn't expect it to fall so fast. When I see so many younger Afghanis that had known only freedom for their entire lives, suddenly fall under the rule of religious zealots, with art and music being crushed, and women losing almost all rights, that feels like a big loss not only for the US, but humanity in general.

We can SAY our own goal was to kill Bin Laden, but the reality was our occupation became much more than that. Apparently we bit off more than we could chew, and now Afghanis are suffering and our prestige as a nation has been wrecked in the eyes of all other nations. Hopefully we can build it back up. It will take better leadership than we have had in the last several administrations, especially the last 2.

 

To sum it up:

Trump lowered my taxes (I was able to buy a jacuzzi!)
Biden left Americans abandoned in Afghanistan
Trump actually got SIGNED peace accords in the Middle East.
Biden makes COVID restriction mandatory for Americans but not for illegal immigrants.
Trump gave the military its first real pay raise in years.
Biden seeks to restrict the second Amendment.
Trump clobbered ISIS.
Biden armed the terrorist Taliban.
Trump allowed terminal patients to use drugs not fully tested that might offer hope.
Biden killed pipeline jobs and US energy independence.
Trump got us back in space on US-made rockets.
Biden got 13 US Soldiers killed at the Kabul airport.
Trump made us energy-independent.
Biden opened our border... WIDE OPEN
Trump supported the 2d amendment
Biden indoctrinates our kids with racist "Critical Race theory"

gees... the list is endless

 

Truth. I was in 1st Cav up in Mosul, and we were often working with the Iraqi army. It felt more like babysitting to be honest. Every time we turned around while conducting joint operations, our counterparts would be sitting around, helmets off, drinking chai, not pulling security. It got old pretty quick constantly having to chew them out to get anything accomplished.

 

I generally state facts, and use logical reasoning. The first thing this leads me to ask, is why you would expect the Left to be doing all the whimpering? Our humiliating fall, on the eyes of this soldier, is certainly no less a shame of the Right; beginning with the idea, in the first place, to set up long-term housekeeping there (and effect that "nation building," as poorly under Bush as under Obama). Then, I presume you know, that it was the Republican president, Trump, who negotiated our exit, with the Taliban, without any mechanism or allowances to hold them to their word, to negotiate in good faith with the Afghan government, to share power.

His other quotes are only more apt, as criticisms of Trump, than of Biden or anyone else:

Do you know how many of those visas got processed by the Trump Administration, in the 11 months they had, after signing the pull-out agreement? Practically NONE! Steven Miller took charge of that, "project."

Have you forgotten the Kurds, already?



To be honest, though, my initial reason to click on your thread was just to note that the word, "Pax (from your title)," is Latin for, "peace." It seems a highly questionable word to use, to describe the last 75 years (unless the absence of a World War is one's highly uncommon definition of that common and, by most, very differently understood word.


And I don't own any pearls.

 

Nope. They did fine until we abandoned them.

 

Trump and Biden co-parent this dishonor.

 

Races are different. The modern world was built on European and especially a Nordic foundation. Expecting others to think in the same way is folly. They can't.

 

I was a "Senior Trainer" for the NEW Iraqi Army. Americans are fairly clueless about the differences of indigenous forces from US forces in the Middle East. First, the concept of "nationalism", of being patriotic" to one's country is practically unknown. Recruits are usually motivated by money and little else. There loyalties are to Islam, their family and their community (tribe). There is little beyond that. When we graduated the First Battalion of the NEW Iraqi Army at KMTB (Kir Kush Military Training Base) in October 2003, we published the assignments of each graduate. We had a near-mutiny. It never occurred to any of the recruits that they would be stationed anywhere but their home towns. It took the 1/10 Cav, locked and loaded, to break them up. Many simply disappeared.

The national soldiers of the region lack motivation. And talent. One of my responsibilities was to administer a map reading test. The student would be asked to show what map symbols meant by pointing to a symbol and then a picture of the actual item, like a bridge, railroad, or fortification. The student would move his hand over the map and watch our eyes for reaction when they got to the correct item. They had no real understanding at all. Rifle marksmanship was another example of their ineptitude. We trained them like US soldiers and they failed as often as not. When a new, Australian Commander arrived, he simply lowered the standards to statistics that showed training success.

The terrorists are fanatics motivated by a sincere desire to reach paradise. The national soldiers of the region have no such motivation. In addition, they are poorly educated. I remember one night that we had to drive an ill trainee over to the local US medical facility. He seemed to be going crazy, bouncing all over the front seat. My I-T (Interpreter-Translator) told me he had never been in an automobile before and was perturbed.

So few in the US understand that much of the world is quite different than us.

 

That's essentially what I'd said.

 

Trump established a quid pro quo agreement... "you do THIS and I'll do THAT". The first condition was that Afghani forces establish a ceasefire with the Taliban. That never occurred. So any deal was off. The rest is all Biden.

 

B.S. Trump still pulled most of our troops out, even though the Taliban didn't live up to their end of the bargain (f.y.i., this only makes Trump's role look even worse). All he was concerned with was that the Taliban wasn't killing American soldiers-- for the "optics," of it. Trump is so transparent, I do not doubt that the Taliban understood that this was the only requirement they need pay any real attention to.

 

Your unreasoned hate of Trump is affecting your thought processes. Trump had 2500 troops on the ground. That was the status quo. When negotiations were opened with the Taliban, Trump offered to remove troops in a quid pro quo. environment. YOU do THIS and WE will do THAT. The first step was for the Afghani military to establish a ceasefire with the Taliban.It never happened, so the deal was off. That was the end of it. Then Biden took over. Those are the facts, no matter how much your hatred of Trump causes your emotions to rule your comments.

 

That’s an extremely ignorant comment. Race has nothing to do with it. If anything it is culture. We had a second generation Iraqi in my squad. His parents were from Iraq. He was one of the hardest working guys I knew. Also, our interpreters were some f the bravest, hardest working guys I have ever met.

The racism I come across on this website has become worse over the years. People don’t even try to hide it anymore.

The reason they don’t work hard is that they were not invested in it. They don’t have a national unity as we do, as their borders have been artificial constructs since the Brits imposed them over a century ago. That doesn’t make them less human, it means they have different priorities that did not align with ours. So go peddle your racist BS elsewhere and try to come up with real reasons for why they are the way they are.

 

I agree. My Iraqi I-T (Interpreter-Translator) was a smart, energetic young guy, a recent graduate of Baghdad University, whose fiance had been stolen away and murdered by Sadaam's sons Uday and Qusay. He explained the problem this way: "You Americans have John Wayne, George Bush and Astronauts. Our last hero died 3,000 years ago." I thought that was rather insightful.

 

I just love it when people think they can read my mind, & then not only show that they have no insight into me, but also have no idea of the facts of the subject we are discussing. Everything you wrote above was a fiction. When Trump made the agreement w/ the Taliban, we had 14,000 troops there, not 2500. So, as I already said, if "the deal was off," why did Trump continue such a large draw-down of forces?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/20/trump-peace-deal-taliban/

<SNIP>
The deal laid out an explicit timetable for the United States and NATO to pull out their forces: In the first 100 days or so, they would reduce troops from 14,000 to 8,600 and leave five military bases. Over the next nine months, they would vacate all the rest. “The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will complete withdrawal of all remaining forces from Afghanistan within the remaining nine and a half (9.5) months,” the deal reads. “The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will withdraw all their forces from remaining bases.”

The United States would release 5,000 Taliban prisoners; the Taliban would release 1,000 of its prisoners.
<End Snip>

 

You are in total denial of the quid pro quo nature of the "deal". So be it. As the great bard once said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It only wastes your time and irritates the pig." Have a nice day.

 

Wrong. The first condition was that 5000 Taliban prisoners will be released. So the Taliban increased their army by 25% overnight thanks to Trump's first condition

 

Why would it be "leftist" complaining when it was Trump who surrendered to the Taliban ?

Once the occupation happened there should have been left in place a secure garrison but Trump's surrender deal said that all US troops will be removed. The US should never have entered the country in the first place but it was all part of the US Foreign Policy plan

 

Huh? That's what I posted. Read carefully.

 

Nope. They were fine as long as they had confidence in us.

 

And, in parting to you-- who continues to maintain his own facts, for at least 3 posts now, without once linking any source to validate your story and, after I just reproduced the Washington Post's explanation of the deal, refuting your claims, still tries to imply that I am the one, who cannot be taught anything-- I will say, "you can't fix 'stupid.'"