What will "losing our democracy" look like?

Democrats and CNN/MSNBC -- but I repeat myself -- wail of the danger of us "losing our democracy."

I honestly don't know what they mean. The phrase only makes sense if the military leadership (the joint chiefs and the majority of military officers) aligns itself with Trump or some other "fascist" (Trump is not a fascist) and orders tanks and soldiers to roll into D.C. and take control of the Capitol. And the soldiers comply, mind you.

Does anyone here really see the slightest risk of this happening?

Or do you see the loss of democracy unfolding and manifesting as a disenfranchisement of voters resulting in the election of congressmen who did not legitimately win their elections?

Or will it just manifest as a jaded majority of both parties deciding not to vote anymore?

I don't see those scenarios, either, but who knows what goes on in then back of smoke-filled rooms. I personally will continue to vote.

 

It means that one day a person in a q anon shaman outfit will somehow defeat the whole military and change an election
It’s definitely one of my biggest fears!

 

It means the Democrats are losing elections. Democrats are set to lose big in November. That is why there is all this wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It might also mean one of our two major parties is outlawed.

 

I hope he gives us another tax cut.

 

According to many here on the forum, it only takes a small group of unarmed people, and maybe a guy wearing a fuzzy hat with horns to take control. That was a close call. Next time, there may be 2 guys wearing fuzzy hats!

 

Here is one articulation of the "loss of democracy":

Right now, America is at a crossroads: we can heed President Biden’s call in his inaugural address to end our “uncivil war,” or we can follow the path of those on the far-left and the far-right who refuse to compromise. If we take this second path, we will remain divided into two Americas — hating, attacking, and demonizing those who differ with us politically and seeing our government paralyzed by partisan gridlock.

Our survey findings should ultimately serve as a call-to-action to our leaders to come together to support a collective rejection of extremism and a shared renewal of faith in our democracy — indeed, it is only through this collective renewal that America will be able to protect our own democracy and ensure that global democratic values endure for generations to come.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/587896-rampant-distrust-in-american-democracy-persists-in-2022

But see, we are already there. Bernie doesn't want to compromise with Ted Cruz, and the right and the left already hate each other. Look at the posts on this board. As for "paralyzed by partisan gridlock," that's only if the congress is evenly divided.

And I'm not sure we don't need more gridlock. There are already too many laws.

 

You know, that's actually a good question. Ever since the Trump era, the establishment has been using that term to cover almost every situation that seems to not benefit the Democrats, and has nothing to do with "democracy." Right now they fear that we will be "losing our democracy" if Trump actually wins (in a democratic election) the Presidency in 2024. I assume the GOP talking the House this year in elections would also endanger democracy.

 

Don’t downplay it! It was a fuzzy hat with horns. And the horns weren’t even metal. The air force wouldn’t be able to use heat seeker missles against that, hence, the end of democracy!
Aaaahhhhh! Please help!

 

I'd like to humbly suggest you read through this thread. Maybe then you'll understand.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/how-alarmed-should-we-be.593125/

 

Ok, but can't I have your opinion here?

 

I'm going to surprise you and report that I read your "alarmed" thread and found some interesting points by your side. Unfortunately, the debate was marred by lots of this "Orange Man" and "Carrot top" business that's really racist but deemed okay by your side because Trump is Hitler, etc. (Could I call Obama "Licorice Head" if I had a mind to, which I do not?)

Now, to the extent that there is a conspiracy to install state electors to miscount democratic votes or refuse to certify a democratic win, yes, that would undermine democracy. I know you don't want to hear "both sides do it," but they do, and have since 1960 at least. However, I will not believe that any elector is seriously bent on miscounting votes or just saying "No" if Trump doesn't like the results.

Nor am I concerned with limitations or curtailment of mail in voting, another bête noir that appears in that thread as proof of impending fascism. In my life it never occurred to me to vote by mail, and how it benefits one side over another I can't imagine. (Are there more Democratic shut-ins than Republican?)

Finally, I regret reading the thread because your proofs inude opinions from Vox, the NY Times, the Washington Post and, dear God, Brian Williams! If I post an opinion piece by Sean Hannity or Mark Levine, will you be impressed?

I join those of your detractors in that thread who believe you are on the fringe. I don't mean to be insulting, but your news sources are as convincing to me as mine would be to you. How you could possibly cite an MSNBC talking head in a debate is ... mysterious. And of all the talking heads ... Brian Williams?? Are you a Republican troll?

Another point: I see you tried to salvage Bill Maher's absurd prediction -- meant to titillating his leftist audience, no more, that Trump would not leave the white house voluntarily by claiming that Trump did something worse. Well, he didn't, but I know we will never agree that what Trump called for in his speech was not breaking and entering the house chamber and demanding Pence produce himself to be lynched. Do you seriously believe that Trump envisioned or desired that?

But at least I read the thread, give me that.

 

Democracy will be lost by a million small cuts that people inflict in the fabric when they strive for personal/party power rather than doing the right thing.

An example: The Trump party is currently rife with mini wannabe Trumps, at the national, state and local level. Those mini Trumps will follow the same Trump playbook. When they lose, they'll claim the election was rigged and they don't accept the result. What do we do when at all levels of government one side of two party divide will paint all election illegitimate, in which they are not the winner, and then use the pretense of stolen elections to change rules to favor said party?

What should Democrats do? Just stand by and watch how little by little, the Trump party takes control of more and more legislatures, not because they have the majority, but because they have figured out how to change the rules so they can win with minority vote? I'd call such an outcome losing our Democracy.

 

That's a great post, actually. Rome fell apart slowly and gradually, then very rapidly. So did the Soviet Union. I tend to say "It can't happen here" when people point to Nazi Germany. But a slow disintegration, like Rome and the USSR? That's pretty much underway right now, and I think it's what allowed Trump to win the Republican primary over better qualified, traditional Republicans. I have no alternative but to pray that it is slowing down as the rioters are one by one pleading guilty and apologizing. Trump won't call for another mass demonstration, and even if he does, a much smaller crowd will gather.

But a grumbling, bitter devolution into separate red and blue states? Yes, I can see that happening here.

 

I am German by birth, so I know a little bit about how Hitler seized power. He actually tried a violent overthrow of the government already in 1923, in the so-called Beer Hall Putsch. He didn't succeed, but what should have been the end of the Nazi movement was just the beginning. Why? Because he already had enough ground-level supporters who looked to Hitler as the ONLY possible solution to their problems.

Now, from that Putsch it took 10 years to fully gain control of the government. How did it happen? By slowly installing loyalists at low level positions, people who were willing to throw away democracy for the love of the man. See a parallel there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_rise_to_power

Now, last year, I thought 1/6 would have been the end of the Trump movement. It wasn't. In contrast, Trump continues to install his loyalists in state and local level positions. For example, around 70 of the 1/6 rioters are running for office, or have already assumed political office in such a manner. I read something about a small town in PA, where two 1/6 rioters are now school board members. My guess: They are striving for higher office, and will eventually attain it.

The lesson: If Trump gets another chance to steal an election, we won't be as lucky as last time. The next time, there will be lots more Trump loyalists in low level positions, for example on election boards, who are going to do the bidding for him. Our only saving grace is that Trump is old. Were he 10-15 years younger, we'd be in real trouble.

The Democrats can't compete with this approach. Why? Because their low level people are loyal to the system, rather than a man.

 

So remind us where this all started again.
Riots with signs claiming Trumps not my president
Attacks on the WH
Attacks on the SCOTUS
Attacks on Federal buildings
Impeachment proceedings started the day Trump took office
The Russia Russia Russia klushuuuun hoax

Yet none of that got your attention huh.
How convenient for you

 

I would be careful with Hitler comparisons if I were you.
Which party controls most of the media in this country
Which party was caught with so much fake media their beloved CNN and MSNBC lost over 80% of their viewers
Which party started impeachment proceedings the day Trump took office to remove a sitting president
Which party faked their Russia kluusion hoax to remove a sitting president
Which party is pushing for federal control of elections to take away states rights
Which party supported 578 riots killing Americans and destroying billions in American businesses

If I were you, Hitler is the last person I would be making comparisons with

 

The folks within the Left's hatred and abuse directed at parents via the school board, with even Dirt Bag Molech Garland getting the felonious FBI involved is a bit much.

PUNCH BACK TWICE AS HARD: Mom, Radio Host, Arrested At School Board Meeting Files Federal Lawsuit: ‘I’m Not Gonna Back Down.’

​

Abuse of power: She briefly pulled her mask down to put in a piece of gum; they halted the meeting and arrested her and removed her.

That's the way these smashed mouth out of control 'school' systems work.

They were going to used smashed mouthed tactics to intimidate parents into compliance.

These censorious bastards are big on doxxing.

Out of control abusers that the Electorate needs to toss headlong out of their positions, at the next ballot box.

They don't think bright, intelligent Moms should be able to speak publicly in opposition to their narrative.

Go Get 'Em Ms. Joy!

​

 

Good heavens, half the country thinks we are going to lose democracy, both Republamd Democrats.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/15/americans-believe-us-democracy-at-risk-of-extinction-poll/

Come on people, we sure as heck will lose it if everyone gives up! What is wrong with us???

 

Donald Judas tRump; for opener's.

And, second, the divisive Right Wing media that has good honest AmeriCAN's tearing at each other's throats.

 

What will "losing our democracy" look like?

The only democracy we practice at the federal level is choosing leaders. We wouldn't lose anything if we could figure out a way to choose leaders without authoritarianism. Plato had some ideals.

 

I'm glad you read through some of the thread. Nothing in it is tarnished, and certainly not racist, in any way by my reference to Trump as the Orange Fraud of Orange Messiah since it's about his ridiculous orange make-up.
As for your predictable "both sides do it" claim, it remains completely unsubstantiated until you provide proof. Something like this for example.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-different-kind.595994/page-2#post-1073193835

 

one positive thing about this thread and similar threads is below...

every post that is made defending trump and and the terrorists of january 6th

, just proves once again the insanity and lunacy of trumpers

only a truly insane person could watch january 6th unfold and call it a protest or a guided tour

please watch this video and explain the peaceful protest

 

We won't. We are simply in the process of an adjustment between the parties. I think folks are wising up to the fake news that drives the hysteria.

​

 

Those in DC and the media (and likely some of their less discerning supporters) bloviating about it are just worried about people not doing what they're told. 'Democracy' to them is a big game of social manipulation where the idiot masses are all so caught up in a grand high school popularity contest that 51% of them can ce be convinced to support or at least tolerate a large variety of nafarious control freak bullshit. Their 'democracy' is always under threat of folks no longer tolerating control freak bullshit, but the louder they get, the closer they are to losing control. ...this is usually when they start looking for a war somewhere.

 

I honestly wish you'd delete that post.

Did you have to come here and call half of the U.S. voters lunatics?

Not helpful.