Russia Declares War on Ukraine<<MOD WARNING>>

"No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy."

 

Maybe Biden deserves some blame for Russia bombing the schools and civilian areas because in his State of the Union address he said:

"From President Zelensky to every Ukrainian, their fearlessness, their courage, their determination literally inspires the world. Groups of citizens blocking tanks with their bodies. Everyone from students to retirees, to teachers turned soldiers defending their homeland."

He just stated in a large public address that everyone, including students and teachers have turned into soldiers.... Well shouldn't Russia bomb their enemies' soldiers???

 

Sending unfamiliar aircraft to the Ukraine and expecting them to use them effectively is like sending a scalpel to a friend and expecting him to be able to perform an appendectomy tomorrow. It takes TWO YEAR to train an Apache pilot... and that's when you start with someone who has at least a thousand hours in other helicopters.

Combat aircraft are not like cars. You don't just pick one out of the lot and drive away.

 

S you think the Japanese bombed the Phillipines because of our brave heroes on Bataan and Corregidor. Wow...

 

........ I said nothing about Japanese or Phillipines, Bataan or Corregidor.........

How clueless can you get......

 

My point is that civilian populations all over the world, throughout history, have turned into soldiers to protect their nations in time of crisis... here in America that exact action resulted in a new nation called the UNITED STATES.

 

This is official line. Are they lying or telling the truth? Up to each individual to decide.

Poland will not send fighter jets to Ukraine, says president

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-says-president/

Speaking alongside NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg on Tuesday at the air force base in Łask in Central Poland, Duda rejected the suggestion that a few countries, including Poland, had delivered MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine. This information was initially presented by Verkhovna Rada, the Ukrainian parliament, and the Ukrainian air forces.

NATO is not a party to the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and therefore, Poland cannot send any jets into Ukrainian airspace, the president stressed.

“We are not sending any jets to Ukraine because that would open a military interference in the Ukrainian conflict. We are not joining that conflict. NATO is not a party to that conflict,” stated Duda.

 

And my point was that they weren't attacking schools until later, likely after a world leader announced in a widely watched statement that teachers and students were becoming soldiers. Yes many civilians need to stand up for themselves in times of trouble, but if a world leader points it out that those are the new soldiers fighting the invasion then why shouldn't they not be targeted next? Even if it is honorable and brave, he should have kept his mouth shut about teachers and students becoming soldiers in such a speech to not expose them to attacks. That's what my point is.

 

That's what I was thinking. Handing weapons to civilians en masse turned those civilians into targets. It seems to me those Ukrainian politicians in charge are prepared to sacrifice their own people for their own gain.

 

Your point has little to do with reality. Warring nations start out fighting military to military. When the attacker starts realizing he isn't going to defeat his enemy's army, he switches to try to defeat the will of the people. The perfect example here is Germany when they realized that their air war against the RAF couldn't be won... they switched from bombing military targets to bombing cities... from London on down. Attacking civilian centers usually indicates that a war waged against an enemy military isn't working out.

 

It is the habit of every national leader in ties of war to proclaim encouraging words and damn the literal truth.
That comment about students and teachers is a very emotional reference to the young and future of Ukraine second only to the mention of "women and children".
If people want to arm themselves and try to face down a huge army with metaphorical pitchforks and pikestaffs, fine IMO. It has to be better than doing nothing because the end result is going to be the same.
Real resistance has to come from really powerful sources and closing air space is one good move.
I heard that Elon Musk has moved one of his satellites to over Ukraine to allow more communications to occur that Putin can't cut .
My estimation of him is going up.

 

A slight correction. Germans believed the RAF was on its last legs so they switched the targets. That was their biggest mistake.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-battle-of-britain

On 7 September, the Germans shifted the weight of their attacks away from RAF targets and onto London. This would be an error of critical importance. The raids had devastating effects on London’s residents, but they also gave Britain’s defences time to recover. On 15 September Fighter Command repelled another massive Luftwaffe assault, inflicting severe losses that were becoming increasingly unsustainable for the Germans. Although fighting would continue for several more weeks, it had become clear that the Luftwaffe had failed to secure the air superiority needed for invasion. Hitler indefinitely postponed Operation ‘Sealion’.

 

American farmers and tradesmen took the muskets off their mantlepieces and went to war against the largest, most well trained and most powerful army in the world. And won. The Ukrainian patriots are acting in the true spirit of freedom... as did our heroes in our own fight against a foreign enemy in a war we call THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

 

Oh blah.
Back on the 18th century all the UK army had was muskets too.
It was a fair fight. The fire power was equal.
and this is 2022, not 1776.
We already discussed this elsewhere and I am not prepared to explain again why half a dozen people with hand guns are ineffective against an incoming missile (or half a dozen tanks, if you will).
Even if the Ukranian Popular Front used arms that the French Resistance used against Germany (and very successfully because partly of the geography of France) they wouldn't be enough to turn Putin back or stop him unless other and equal means are also used.
You have there an unbalanced fanatic promising a safe corridor for refugees to escape by and then bombs it. The only bullet from a hand gun that will stop him is one in the head.

 

You are giving too much credit to farmers and traders. The American revolution would have never materialized without French and Spanish help. France played the crucial role. Do you even know that the Spanish forces attacked British positions and captured West Florida from Britain? This secured supply routes and prevented the possibility of any British offensive through the western frontier of the USA via Mississippi River. Not to mention that Spain provided money, munitions, supplies and weapons to the American forces.

 

Best not to disturb the pared down patriotic version kids learn in school and never question.

 

They have JAVELIN. In the north of Iraq during the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom, four Americans with three pickup trucks filled with JAVELINs destroyed an entire Iraqi Tank Battalion (54 tanks). We are giving them Javelin and Stinger. You obviously don't know the power of these weapons or how they work. Ask me if you wish to know.

 

and this turned the war in a significant way?
I don't think so.

 

Its becoming increasingly obvious that you know nothing about things military... from strategy, to tactics to weapons and more. I would suggest you stop embarrassing yourself.

And we are still waiting for you tell us how you had the cash to buy a house or car in your 20's without taking out a loan.

 

I'm starting to question if you know what reality is... You say that when the attackers start realizing that they aren't going to defeat the enemy's army that they then instead attack civilians to defeat their will. And you really think that applies to this conflict?? It was one week into the attack.....

Most likely Russia was taking it easy and not pressing hard, hoping to get a fast surrender without too much damage. Very unlikely they thought they weren't going to defeat Ukraine's army... Ukraine is begging for military help and have basically no air support.

But then the main world leader announces the teachers and students and civilians are now soldiers, that makes them all a target now. Whether or not they are brave heroes in stepping it up, a world leader should not put a target on them by stating such publicly.

 

The Russian Army has serious problems. A "stalled" column miles long is unheard of. Its absolutely absurd. Russian soldiers are dying in great numbers. Only ONE major city has been captured. Those are FACTS. When you add in he credible rumors of Soldiers so undisciplined that rape is common... that their rations are gone and they are living off the land... that fuel is in short supply... this is an Army in deep trouble.
The WALKOVER they expected isn't happening... so what can they do? BREAK THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
And foreigners talking about the Ukrainian heroes has no effect on anything. Dead Russian soldiers attest to the heroism of the Ukrainian people much more than any silly broadcast.

 

I'm starting to think they should protect their citizens by looking more for a truce and peace instead demanding them to stand up against a much more fully armed Russia. Now what would be their demand in a truce is debatable but it could put a pause on the escalating destruction and death that they wont be able to overcome anytime soon without another nation joining them,

 

Turning over weapons to civilians makes them an army... with some organized leaders to lead them.
Ukrainian leaders and Russian leaders have been meeting to discuss things every day. Yesterday they established some safe corridors for civilians to escape, Nothing, however, was forthcoming about any truce or ceasefire. Perhaps if the Russians hadn't been raping and killing civilians with such gusto... they could have reached some sort of agreement.

 

We all wish the Russian Army is having serious problems, yet I would say it is more likely that they were going easy on Ukraine to give people a chance to flee, make the world be fooled into doubting their true strength and see how hostile the world's reaction would be. The long column was created by a destroyed bridge and the fact that their is no danger from an air force to take them out while they figure out how to encircle the city. It isn't pretty but against Ukraine's inferior army it won't really matter. We don't agree. It's way too early to have a need to break the people's will imo.

Foreigners talking about heroes is fine. But stating who exactly is picking up arms and becoming the threat to the invaders is going too far and exposing them as a target to further bloodshed.

I don't like many things the Russians are doing. I totally reject their invasion. If there was a true need to remove Neo Nazis and such wrong doing leaders then they should have tried diplomacy first. Being that they didn't do that shows that their motivations are more likely toward conquering. But, I really don't think think their will is being broken or that they are weak enough to be stopped. And I definitely think Biden should not have made such a statement about teachers and students now becoming soldiers because that puts a target on their head, and alas shortly after the schools are now being bombed...

 

Do you think Russians stop and ask every Ukrainian with a rifle if they are soldiers or civilians? Really? Sorry, Soldiers are told to shoot enemies with rifles ON SIGHT.