Whatever we decide is off limits, is off limits. There is no objective morality, that doesn't mean that our subjective morality isn't useful.
Is slavery objectively evil? The Bible says no. Is murdering an infant objectively evil? The Bible says no. The ONLY "objective morality" you guys have to offer is "obey God." That's it. There are no consistent rules other than that, which is why religion is a useful tool in excusing every possible evil imaginable.
Why would two Athiests need to get married? Can't they just hit and run like a couple of chimpanzees? And how do you come up with the ceremony?
My wife and I are atheists. Your question makes no sense. We wrote our own ceremony. You still haven't answered which denomination should wield absolute power over whether people can get married or not.
Did you have a nice Magic Show wedding, perhaps? Or did you borrow from religious ceremony. If you did borrow from other ceremonies, do you need to be ashamed of your cultural appropriation?
Nope. We had a nice wedding in our friend's backyard. My sister made the cake. My cousin did the photography. My best friend was DJ. My wife's best friend officiated. We exchanged vows without any religious content. We celebrated our love. We've been married for 11 years, still hold hands everywhere we go, and are constantly mistaken for being newlyweds. Why is that upsetting?
It's stopped being a religious institution once the government started offering benefits based on it.
And the following from the New York Times, no less: "I am the product of divorce and several stepfathers, but I still believe in the importance of the traditional family, not because of Dan Quayle or “Leave It To Beaver,” but because of the facts and the record. The family is the nucleus of civilization and the basic social unit of society. Aristotle wrote that the family is nature’s established association for the supply of mankind’s everyday wants. Research clearly shows that the institution of the family is the first form of community and government and, as Michael Novak said, the first, best and original Department of Health, Education and Welfare. Republicans are talking about family values because they see the family breaking down in front of them. For a civilization to succeed, the family must succeed, and right now, it’s not. Today, more than half of all births to American women under 30 occur outside marriage, and the out of wedlock birth rate in the United States has passed 40 percent." Link: Stronger Families, Stronger Societies - NYTimes.com ____________ I'm betting I'm gonna get an unserious response from you. JAG []
Bet however you wish but you didn't answer my question. Most everybody is part of a family for a good chunk of their lives. Whether or not they marry someone else or not and have kids or not really has zero meaningful impact on strangers or society as a whole.
Secular marriage is nothing more than enforcement of contracts, it's strictly a legal mechanism. Religious marriage is far more than that. It's intended to bind a man and woman together in a moral relationship that honors God's will. It's a commitment based on love, trust, and communication that provides a picture of our relationship with the Lord.
All morality is relative and usually by consensus. All morality was created by humans. Morality assigned to God that is then claimed to be absolute is just folks trying to destroy the paper trail.
If you are talking Love as described as Agape it is not morally wrong. If you are talking physical sex as love in itself.....well it is not love. Beastiality is not love Love stands alone apart from physical fulfillment.
My take would be this..... a level of morality is instilled in every single human being though it can be resisted. A knowledge of right and wrong is embedded in our human spirit. What we do with it is up to us.
` You are simply at the present time unfamiliar with the solid irrefutable documentation regarding the societal damage that has been done and is ongoing, because of the destruction of the traditional nuclear family. And it'd be a good bet that you do not want to know about it. You can research it. High rates of teen suicide High rates of drug addiction Yong men turn to crime and end up in jail Alcohol addiction Addiction to prescription drugs Emotional breakdown requiring therapy. The children grow up and REPEAT their messed up family life (with more messed up "families") Homelessness The fact is that children do NOT TURN OUT WELL when they are NOT raised in a traditional home where there is a loyal Father and Mother there to look after them and to set a good example before them. As a general rule of thumb, leftist are NOT going to open their minds to the truth about the societal damage caused by the destruction of the nuclear family. Why not? Because then they'd no longer be leftists. JAG []
Civilization always goes thusly: Good people create good times. Good times create bad people. Bad people create bad times. Bad times create good people. Good people create good times. Human nature isn't conducive to perpetuating prosperity. We can only have it in waves.
I can see that from your perspective and there is some truth in it. But the way I prefer to see the progession of civilization is from - freedom to Liberty, from Liberty to bondage, and from bondage to slavery. The normal state of man has always been slavery or subjugation. But Man's natural state is freedom, including the freedom to harm others. The goal is to achieve a state of Liberty, where any person has right to do anything they choose so long as they do no wrong to another person's rights. But the scale is weighted with a tendency for Man to descend into slavery. That's what I see happening from my perspective.