I believe that to legitimately claim that one is "Christian," one must believe that there is one God, and that God is Triune in essence--meaning that the the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One God--co-existing, co-eternal, and con-substantial. Opinions?
Christianity is the belief that Jesus was the Son of God, and that his Ministry was God's truth as revealed in the gospels.
Hmmmm...Well, Jesus was God Incarnated. God on a mission, if you will. He was "fixing" the human nature that was damaged by sin. To be fully man, and fully God, Jesus was subject to the same foibles we are, but his Divine nature responded Perfectly in order to redeem the failings of the (created) flesh.
Hmmmm...who legitimately interprets that "revelation?" There are a lot of opposing perspectives on Gospel interpretation.
Well, that is why we have something called the synoptic gospels - that is the historically accurate, to the best of our ability, complete ministry of Christ. The more important method is called the proof is in the pudding method. You put his Ministry into practice, you see its benefits for yourself and others, and you know it is truth. It really is that simple.
Not possible. Look at the offer from the devil to give Him all the kingdoms of the Earth. If you're not dumb enough to let somebody sell you your own house, what makes you think God would be dumb enough to let the devil sell Him what He already owned? Obviously that makes no sense; but it makes perfect sense for someone who did not own it to be tempted by that offer. Not to mention that it also doesn't make any sense for God to claim that of Himself He can do nothing, or to claim only His Father knows the day and hour of His coming, or to ask "Why callest thou me good?" and answer that none is good but God alone.
That sounds like what is termed the "Prosperity Gospel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology Is that what you subscribe to?
I don't understand what you're saying with this example. So the devil was stupid enough to make the offer...that has nothing to do with Jesus. He declined, BTW. I suppose that makes sense if you assume that human nature is all there is. However, we acknowledge the natures of animals--their instinct as dictated by their nature or essence as beings--why is there the presumption that there is no "God nature" that is different from our human nature? Is it because it posits a nature greater than ours, and human hubris has difficulty accepting something greater than itself?
The Holy Trinity is a good place to start because this doctrine, featured in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds, were the first rallying standard that separated true Christian from heretic. When the devil failed to destroy the Church through persecutions, he busied himself with the task of infiltrating it with heretical doctrines regarding the nature of God. Each time Satan attacked, the Church grew stronger. Persecution? It caused the gospel to be spread out even further. Heresies? It cause the councils to formulate trinitarian doctrine. Gnostic writings and gospels? It caused the formation of the canon, the Bible we have today. Cults that stray will often strike at the heart of the Trinity forming a foundation of error that queers the rest of their beliefs. The Jehovah Witnesses deny the deity of Christ. The Mormons say Jesus is a creature and not God everlasting. And on it goes. So yes, Felicity, the Trinity is a great doctrine by which to sift true believers and the true gospel of Christ from clever forgeries. I agree.
I agree as well. What saddens me greatly is the good people who are affected by heresy--those who live Christian ideals, but are affected by the infiltration of warped theology. Fortunately, God is merciful, and knows our hearts better than we know them ourselves. It is no excuse for lukewarm love of God, but God is not bound by His own rubrics--His mercy endures invincible ignorance. That is why I believe that SOMEnon-Christian (as I have defined it) may see God face to face. It is God's domain to judge the heart, even though it is appropriate for man to judge the reasoning.
I didn't say the devil was stupid, I said God would have to be incredibly stupid, not just to accept the offer, but to believe He was being offered anything He didn't already have. I haven't the foggiest idea what any of this has to do with anything I said.
What is your point with this, then? It relates because you assume that human awareness is the height of "knowing." God has a different nature that animal or human--He is God. We do not have experience with being a Triune nature as God is--just as a field mouse cannot fathom the complexities of the experience of human nature.
Nope. I subscribe to the gospels. I know they are the truth because when I put into practice the wisdom of the Bible, good things happen. Bad things will continue to happen, I will continue to be imperfect, but by staying focused on the principles of the Bible, good things happen over the long haul. Its the truth.
So the Bible is a book of magic spells by which you can extract cosmic favors to make your life better? What's more important to you, the Bible or the Bible's Author?
I don't know how to make it any plainer at the moment. For humans it clearly is, though I still have no idea what that has to do with anything I said. That's a half truth, since we were created in His image. But of course that only has meaning if God is in fact triune, which is certainly not at the core of anything Jesus taught as recorded in the Gospels.
But nobody knows exactly what that means. Oops! You're making a common mistake. The gospels aren't an exhaustive account of all Jesus taught and were never written for that purpose. The teachings of the Apostles and their successors bear out more of what Jesus taught and laid down the theological groundwork for what would later be the defined doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus told the Apostles to teach the nations everything they were taught by Him and the Apostles did just that. So when we're talking about the teachings of Christ, the gospels are only a start.
Then it makes no sense to be drawing any bright lines between God's nature and man's. No I'm not. I never implied otherwise. Even so, there is no instruction in any of the Epistles in the matter of the alleged trinity, and even the passages from which it might even be inferred are few and far between. In any case, whatever value there may be in the concept, it is impossible that Jesus is God for a number of reasons, some of which I have listed; and whatever the intracacies of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, professing Christians would do themselves a favor by abandoning such esoterica for the moment and concentrating on why so many of them live their lives like Hellbound heathens.
Satanists use that same reasoning. How do you explain the success & happiness some non-believers experience? Also, is the focus of your worship on YOUR success and good things happening to you? Perhaps you should read Job.
Your point of reference is all over the field. One cannot carry on a cogent discussion if you have no real position.
That is an illusion produced by the fact that you're not making any sense. My position could not possibly be clearer: Jesus, as represented in the Gospels, is not God.
Felicity, this is proof that you're right. The Trinity is an offense to those who aren't Christian. It repels non Christians and sifts them out from true believers. The rejection of the deity of Christ is a rejection of Christ and I've found by long and painful experience that it's not worth debating the Jehovah Witnesses. They argue in circles and try to wear you down by attrition. Now that I know where yguy is coming from, I won't engage him/her any longer.
Actually it is merely a rejection of the implication that God is the author of confusion; and affirmation of the trinity is only held as an infallible litmus test for "true belief" by pharisaical, gnat-straining, camel-swallowing pseudo-Christians.