I wonder if the minimum wage workers at Godfather's Pizza think Cain is "pro-worker"

Can't be sure if your correct or not, But I'll go with the assumption that you are.

When I say we help provide for the basics of life, I'm not including things like TV, Recreation, Etc. Just the bare minimum needed to live. And I'm not saying that the poor would get it for free, We would just help to pay for the things they cannot. The poor would still have to pay for whatever they could to survive.

Now, If I was in that condition, Life would still pretty much stink. I already hate having to work every day, But I do it because there are things I want to buy that require that I have a steady job. Personally, I could not imagine living without my video games, Or internet access.

And I'm single, I don't have children to support or any major outstanding debts. Those that have children or debts that would be in collection would have even less 'fun money', Thus they would pretty much have to work to survive.

Just my opinion, At least. Thank you for your time.

 

Then how is it there is still a shortage of truck drivers? There is many manufacturing jobs in this country. The problem now is the economy

 

Unions don't have force. What is crap say that unions are a menace for growing the business. Well what are the unions is a menace for that business that want to grow whatever the means, it is paying the minimium possible to their workers, and if it less then better. And having the workers without rights.

Unions are weakest as ever, and rights of the workers too. Make the relation.

 

Unions are fairly weak right now, but workers' rights are very strong. We have the right to minimum wage, overtime, break requirements, workplace safety requirements, unemployment insurance, retirement insurance and many other things, all without being in a union.

 

the problem is if you pay too much then you also have to charge more. How many people do you think are willing to pay 10 dollars for a happy meal?

 

the government unions are stong though!

 

The relation is over paid unions stop growth and profit. They are no longer about union members but more about being a democrat political machine

 

So you think that most workers are just stupid idiots because the have run unions out of town. They're just to dump to think about their own well being?

You see oblivious to the fact most were in unions before and now they CHOOSE not to be in them.

They don't need unions to stomp on their rights. Unions restricted my rights as an employee they didn't protect them.

 

So I have claim to your "excess" property and wealth?

Oh I do.

Really

The Jones and the Smiths moved next to each other when they were you and just starting out. The Jones lived frugally and saved at least 10% of their pay as a top budget item. They didn't buy new cars usually a good used one. They didn't take extravagant vacations but nice ones within their budgets. They worked longer hours when possible and saved the money and Mr. Jones did everything he could at work to get promotions and advances. They used debt wisely and never built up balances on credit cards or used the equity in their home for discretionary spending. When they retired they had a nice nest egg and owned their home and were now able to travel and enjoy their retirement.

The Smiths didn't save a penny, they spent everything the earned on new cars every other years and expensive vacations. The loaded up credit cards with dining out and cloths and then every few years use what equity they had in their home to pay them off. Mr. Smith never worked over time saying 40 hours was all he should have to work and never did anything at work to advance himself usually complaining about the boss and the job. When they retired they had nothing, soon they were losing their home because they still owed money on the mortgage and equity loans.

So the Smith's go to Washington and complain who unfair it is the Jones have so much when they have so little. They demanded the government do something to make it equal.

So what claim do the Smith's have on the Jone's, you know the ones that have the excess? And why do they have such a claim?

 

"Paid" and that amount is how much and what if you labor is not worth that much?

When I was a kid in school working in the drug store did I "deserve" a "living wage" and why?

So you get a "wage" for being a student? A wage is for work performed.

Whether they earn it or not. Tell me if you are going to get it anyway then why work at all?

Me>> Where does society get the money?

Want to try and reconcile your two statements.

And also how it treats it's most successful and what opportunities it provides. And how much liberty and freedom it provides everyone including the freedom to own property and retain the rewards of your labor. Where did you learn that taking from those who labor hard, better themselves, live responsibly, save their money and giving it to those who do not do the things in their lives to be successful and live off other peoples labor and earnings is a measure of how wonderful a country is?

 

Interesting story. I note that you put all of the fault on the Smith family, and none on ANY other factor. Part of the problem may be out of the control of the Smith family, Such as employers not giving him a raise for cost of living each year, Or laying him off. You cannot assume that all poor people are lazy and make nothing but bad choices.

But let's assume that you are correct. Think of it this way, There are many more Smith families these days then there are Jones families. And maybe the Smith family is trying to improve their lives, But finds that from a practical standpoint, It is extremely difficult or impossible. Do you expect them to just give up without a fight? To live like a family in a third world country or a country like China?

The Jones families can try to compromise with the Smith families, Reach an agreement where both sides benefit that both sides can agree too. But if they do not start doing this soon, The Smith families are going to become more angry and desperate. They will start with all legal channels to force their way. If/When that does not work, They will resort to illegal channels, Or barely survive within the system, Or starve.

Do the Jones families have bodyguards? Gated communities? Guns with lots of ammo? I hope they do, Because if they do not compromise and if they exact changes that cause more Smith families to become homeless and destitute, They are going to need them. Just remember, YOU CAN'T KILL THEM ALL. Eventually the numbers will overwhelm you.

Note: I'm not advocating revolution unless it's a last resort. I would much rather that both sides come together and COMPROMISE. Those that don't want to work will have to realize that they will have to work. Those that made MANY poor decisions will realize they may have to cut back their quality of life somewhat. At the same time, The employers will have to realize they will need to pay their employees fair wages. And the rich will need to realize that as they HAVE the money, They will have to pay a bit more as well, At least in the short term. But something will have to be done SOON, Before it's too late.

Thank you for your time.

 

Are you serious? This has to be a joke.

 

There were no others.

So what claim do the Smiths have on the Jones?

Why? What claim does the Smith family have on the Jones that the Jones should be compromising anything?

So blackmail in order to get government assistance.

And you support that as political process?

So why are the Jones obliged to give anything of theirs to the Smith's, because the Smith's will come and steal it or cause them harm if they don;t turn it over?

And we are suppose to support this as a means of governance, this is the society you want?

 

I'm sorry, I'm thinking on practical terms here.

Are the Jones families obligated to give of their own to the Smith families, That's debatable. Do the Jones families do anything directly or indirectly that cause some of the problems with the Smith families? That is a good question to look at.

But on practical terms, I don't think the Smith families are just going to crawl in a gutter and die from starvation and the elements. It's just not human nature. Thus, You have a few different scenarios:

1. The Smith families try to improve their own situation. I believe many Smith families are attempting to do this now. But the job environment is a poor one these days. Many companies are out-sourcing their jobs to other countries where they can pay their employees very low wages. Many in this country advocate we cut protections put in place so that we can pay OUR employees those same low wages. For those companies that do offer pay raises, The raises are not keeping up with the cost of living. Costs for things like healthcare, energy costs, etc. are sky-rocketing. This is the 'business-as-usual' course we are on now, And many are beginning to realize that it is not working. And for those that made mistakes in their lives, They are realizing that it will be next to impossible for them (for whatever reason) to come back from their positions.

2. The Smith families try to have the laws changed to primarily benefit themselves. This is perfectly legal, As the businesses can (And often do) do the same thing. This option will hopefully pick up speed as the wealth gap widens. The best outcome is for a moderate approach, To where we do not swing completely socialist, But enact policies that promote fair wages and benefits. This option may be put out of play if big businesses can lobby the government to ignore the masses.

3. The Smith family wind up on the street, Homeless and hungry. They proceed to spend the rest of their lives begging for scraps of food and living in cardboard boxes. This option would require laws put in place that widen the gap further, And make it more difficult for the poor to recover from their mistakes.

4. The Smith family acquires a gun and attempts to rob the rich for some of their wealth. If they are already living a destitute life, What else do they have left to lose? Especially if they cannot work their way out of their situation.

The Jones family isn't OBLIGATED to give to the Smith family unless they did something to cause the Smith family problems. But from a practical point of view, A high number of poor and destitute result in an increase in violence and bloodshed. Do I want that? No. But I'm not so naive that I don't realize how the world is.

You can compromise now, To get the Smith family to work harder, And the Jones families to help them up. Or, You can pay later, Either monetarily or in blood. That's just the way the world works.

Thank you for your time.

 

What is debatable.

No where did you get the premise of that question from what I posted.

You have everything you need to know.

What obligation does the Jones family have to the Smiths?

Then why do you support wealth and income redistribution?

Why should people who worked and sacrificed and saved and live responsibility be require to provide for those who choose not to?

 

Um, No, I don't have all the information. I don't know if the Jones family (directly or not) did something that impacted the quality of life for the Smith family. Keep in mind, I'm not looking ONLY at your one example, But the picture as a whole. It's not wise to use anecdotal evidence as proof of a fact.

Why do I support wealth and income redistribution? What would be the alternative? Are you willing to live with large numbers of homeless, Abject poor living in the streets, Begging for table scraps? Are you willing to live with the increased risk of being robbed or killed for your wealth? Are you willing to try to kill all those abject poor that will either force the laws to change to their advantage, Or to take your wealth from you?

Yes, It's coercive. Yes, It's morally repugnant. But that's the way the world is. Change it, Deal with it, Or get out of the way. That's the way it is for everyone, Myself included.

Thank you for your time.

 

Yes you do so how about an answer?

Grasping at straws now, nothing in the story indicates any associations between the two, just two separate families.

Admit it you can't justify it.

So IOW you support the unproductive, those who do not take responsibility for themselves blackmailing the rest of us.

It's not the way for me else why should any of us work?

 

Ordered a Pizza last night at 6:32................it was at my house piping hot at 6:56.

They know I tip well.

 

Who cares?! You probably live in some small stupid town where you'll get your pizza fast regardless.

 

I support taking care of the basics, Like food and shelter, Simply because I am not willing to kill them. I don't want to live with the fear of being robbed for my wealth, And I'm not willing to just let them die en masse on the streets.

As to why anyone would work? Well, I don't support luxuries to people that do not work. All they would get is a roof over their heads, Food in their bellies, A few outfits of clothes. They wouldn't be getting anything else on the taxpayers dime without putting out work for it. I wouldn't like to live that life. No internet? No Video Games? No extras? I'm willing to work for those things.

With the rising costs of things like gas, healthcare, etc, and the stagnation of wages for employees, Something has to give. I refuse to work 80 plus hours of work each week to maintain my living standards (Which are not that high). I'm not willing to live like a sweatshop person earning 2-3 dollars a DAY. I hate the thought of giving people money for doing nothing, But if they are working, Even if it is just a minimum wage job, Then we need to at least cover the bare essentials, In my opinion.

Thank you for your time.

 

You don't think being a computer engineer is work? A systems analyst? A regional VP of a fast food chain isn't work?

Why not?

 

I think that's a false choice. Poverty does not cause crime, crime causes poverty.

So you support massive cuts in welfare spending?

 

I guess the jury is still out on poverty and crime rates, I can find links that both support and detract both sides of view.

Let me ask you, If you are homeless and hungry, Unable to get a job, No friends or family to help you, No charities to help you (they are being overrun), Would you rob someone of either money or materials (seeds,food,etc.) to survive? Or would you crawl into a ditch and die.

What I support is actions that have the best impact on the most number of people. And I'm sorry to say, There are many, MANY more poor people than there are rich. I support any actions that can lower the wealth gap. I would prefer legal actions over illegal of course. But take away my legal options, and what do I have left? If you don't like it, Then please feel free to give me options, as long as they are option that can actually come true without a huge loss in money/time/energy.

Thank you for your time.

 

A believer in the extortion theory of public welfare.

The problem with your scenerio is it applies to almost no one. Nearly everyone has at least one friend or living family member who would help. You also assume that only welfare could help and thus disregard all of the food banks, soup kitchens, shelters and other charities that already help people in need. Thus you imply that the only options will be crime or death. What about panhandling, odd jobs, scrap metal collecting, newspaper selling and the other ways down on their luck people get cash?

 

if you go to any third world country you will find that crime is rampant there. I think the welfare system needs to be overhauled yes.....but not totally abandoned as crime would skyrocket especially crimes like pick pockets, and home break ins!