Homeland Security's Gotta Go

I agree - but I also want many other agencies to be scrapped.

 

Do you lack the ability to use logic? Must everything be set in stone and have happened before for it to matter? Oh wait no, because if it did you wouldn't trust the system being that it's failed. Instead you keep up this blind faith and attack people providing counter arguments while ignoring or justifying facts that work against your belief.

I mean seriously this is your counter to me saying that metallic objects would be detected by a metal detector or seen in an xray machine. My god why even reply if you refuse to try? Stupidity and intentional ignorance just pisses me off to no end. You can disagree with me all you want but to act as though every one of my arguments is some flawed, out in space argument is insulting and makes you look like a moron, especially when I support them with facts.

I'm done with you in this thread, it's clear you are unwilling to even try to make a coherent argument, you just want to insult me and play retard when I make a point.

 

I agree. I'm not sure why that wall came up to begin with but that certainly would have been a better solution than what we have now. I believe our intelligence agencies are much more likely to stop a terrorist incident than the DHS is.

 

Their comment was meant to be illustrative.

You can do the math yourself; since 1776, how many Americans in the USA have died from terrorism, and divide this number by the total number of Americans who have lived since 1776.

Your answer will be a very very very small number...

 

I don't agree with your opinion here. I suspect it has much more to do with political insecurities, our remaining barbaric tendencies towards war and death, and socialism of government...

 

Hell goto all of human history. 9/11 happened once. It was a very, very bad thing, no one will deny that. However what is happening now is a severe over-reaction. Things like air marshals and re-enforced cockpit doors make a lot more sense than upping security, especially when it's well known that there are ways of getting around security and the security itself is hardly airtight with what it does to begin with. The simple solution is usually the best; in this case closing down the cockpit. Air marshals is a bonus. Hell arm the pilots too. Even better arm everyone. If everyone has a gun then no one's hijacking anything.

 

I gotta agree with you here, I don't think this stuff is some massive conspiracy either. I think this comes from people doing things to garner votes and justify their jobs.

 

Posted from Bourne:

So we are now searching for drugs and other illegal items that have no relationship to aircraft security. You see how this has already expanded? In addition, there is no evidence that any of the people allegedly carrying weapons had any intent to hijack an aircraft.

Then they go after money - why are you carrying money? The TSA interrogate a political staffer - listen to the whole video recording.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiKPseXiVXg"]Audio: TSA thugs illegally detain and threaten Ron Paul supporter for having "Too much money" - YouTube[/ame]


Now they are running checkpoints in broad daylight on highways.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJPo7b3c1bk"]TSA expands to road checkpoints with Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) - YouTube[/ame]


The use of the "terrorism" label can be applied to anyone and everyone. An Engineer with a wrench could be a terrorist. So could a doctor with a hypodermic, so could anyone even driving a care.


Then there are the "illegal immigrant" checkpoints way inside Americas borders.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ9OANYxgEQ"]ACTUAL FOOTAGE Pastor Beaten Tased by Border Patrol DPS - YouTube[/ame]


Jason Bourne, I don't think you have the faintest idea what "Freedom" and "liberty" mean.

Furthermore the DHS is already running surviellance on anyone who arcs up about the subject.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/23/fusion-centers-expand-criteria-identify-militia-members/



This is the definition of a police state. Wait till its you Jason and you get pulled over for no reason:


Where are you going? What is the purpose of your travel?

Who are these people with you? What are their names? Where do they live?

Why are you carrying this money? How did you get it? What are you going to do with it?

Why do you carry camping gear?

What is that book you are reading?

Why are you travelling at this time?

Show me what images are in your camera.

Show me what is in your laptop computer.

How did you get the money to buy this car?

Why do you have a Rand Paul bumper sticker? What political party do you vote for?

Is this part of a gun?

Why do you carry so many tools?

Where do you work?

Where did you go to school?

Where? What? Why?

...and any query or refusal will be met with a threat to arrest you, and if you object, there is the Taser.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8gSCyFe4Zg"]RAW: Leaked Terrorist Interrogation Recording - US/Canada Border [Police State LIVE!] - YouTube[/ame]

 

Posted from Bourne:

So we are now searching for drugs and other illegal items that have no relationship to aircraft security. You see how this has already expanded?

Then they go after money - why are you carrying money? The TSA interrogate a political staffer - listen to the whole video recording.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiKPseXiVXg"]Audio: TSA thugs illegally detain and threaten Ron Paul supporter for having "Too much money" - YouTube[/ame]


Now they are running checkpoints in broad daylight on highways.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJPo7b3c1bk"]TSA expands to road checkpoints with Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) - YouTube[/ame]


The use of the "terrorism" label can be applied to anyone and everyone. An Engineer with a wrench could be a terrorist. So could a doctor with a hypodermic, so could anyone even driving a care.


Then there are the "illegal immigrant" checkpoints way inside Americas borders.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ9OANYxgEQ"]ACTUAL FOOTAGE Pastor Beaten Tased by Border Patrol DPS - YouTube[/ame]


Jason Bourne, I don't think you have the faintest idea what "Freedom" and "liberty" mean.

Furthermore the DHS is already running surviellance on anyone who arcs up about the subject.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/23/fusion-centers-expand-criteria-identify-militia-members/



This is the definition of a police state. Wait till its you Jason and you get pulled over for no reason:


Where are you going? What is the purpose of your travel?

Who are these people with you? What are their names? Where do they live?

Why are you carrying this money? How did you get it? What are you going to do with it?

Why do you carry camping gear?

What is that book you are reading?

Why are you travelling at this time?

Show me what images are in your camera.

Show me what is in your laptop computer.

How did you get the money to buy this car?

Why do you have a Rand Paul bumper sticker? What political party do you vote for?

Is this part of a gun?

Why do you carry so many tools?

Where do you work?

Where did you go to school?

Where? What? Why?

...and any query or refusal will be met with a threat to arrest you, and if you object, there is the Taser.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUMQ9qailp4"]SACRAMENTO MAN TASERED AT AIRPORT BY TSA SAYS IT WAS OVERREACTION - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8gSCyFe4Zg"]RAW: Leaked Terrorist Interrogation Recording - US/Canada Border [Police State LIVE!] - YouTube[/ame]

 

Instead of all the airport security we have today, just have every passenger along with all of their luggage, walk through a bomb-explosion room one at a time, which will xray them for weapons, and, in which if they are carrying a bomb it simply explodes! If there is an explosion, a powerful vacuum comes on and quickly sucks the remains out of the room and the line keeps moving...

 

There is a direct conflict of interest in being a politician; doing the right thing may not override pandering for votes for re-election. Let your government protect you from all of the evil boogeymen, and trust us, there are lots of evil boogeymen who wish to harm you...

 

I exhort people to watch this video and then tell me America is not a Police state.

Please note that this search was AFTER a journey, not before, so there is absolutely positively no "Security" component to it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1B3AubsTBo"]TSA harassing and searching a 9 year old - YouTube[/ame]

 

I happen to know for a fact that in the Year 2010 the FBI found and disrupted more terrorist attacks in the us than the DHS has in the last 3 years. Why do we need a government agency that dose the same thing as thre others do? NSA is the same thing as DHS. FBI is bound to the the United States and The CIA is our forigen ticket to preventing terrorism. The DHS was made by a paranoid president to watch our movements and make sure we are not interfearing with the growth of our allready overlarge government

 

Story break.......................................

I was posted with the military as a exchange person to the USA in 2003.

Had a house hunting trip so I passed through some major airport with a few hour wait. I could not believe those announcements from homeland security, its was like a spooky twilight episode.

It would repeat so often I even got paranoid, my god, I was even spooked.

Even on my trip to the USA by car it seemed surreal. I wont say more as it was not quite right. To say more might be insulting. Abeit it took years to truly understand.

 

This is an interesting thread. Having worked with/for several of the federal government's departments and agencies, I've seen firsthand what a bloated, unproductive, white-collar-welfare-for-bureaucrats program the D of H S really is. I can't say that it's worse than all the other departments and agencies; but it's the worst among those where I have worked. It is utterly depressing to see how much money we as a nation are wasting on this questionable venture.

My recommendation is not to eliminate it, though. I see how it could serve a purpose of unifying the agencies that predated it whose missions had overlap. There is value in getting the Coast Guard to team up with CBP and ICE on immigration-related missions, for example. But this type of coordination and oversight could be done with a couple dozen upper-level staff, borrowing legal and administrative specialists from the subordinate agencies. Instead, we have this monstrosity that includes the TSA (reminding us every time we travel that the terrorists succeeded in robbing us of our freedom), the CNE (how many drug enforcement agencies do we need?), I&A (oh good, more spooks), OHA (totally unnecessary), and that doesn't even touch on the "supporting" elements like the Civil Rights folks, the Public Affairs folks, the Policy folks, the Privacy folks, and the technology folks. There is a ridiculous number of Senior Executive Service federal employees running around that place stepping on their own d(*)(*)ks but accomplishing remarkably little for their fellow citizens.

I'm getting carried away. But you get the picture. Just remember, it looks much worse from the inside.

 

I don't need a source to know that no system is 100% full-proof.

But in order to educate YOU, since YOU obviously don't read much, I found this article for you to review.

BTW; my question was rhetorical...

 

Washington has made a large number of people ludicrously paranoid about "terrorism," deliberately in my opinion. Just utter the vague, ill-defined, politicized term "terrorism" and the pathologically fearful populace of "the land of the brave" will assent to intrusions that make sharia law look like a pillar of Enlightenment principles.

Statistically, you have a greater chance of dying by suffocating in your sleep, choking on your own vomit, or being killed by a cop than you have of dying at the hands of a terrorist. FDR said "we have nothing to fear but fear itself." Likewise, this crippling fear of terrorism is a far greater threat to our lives and liberty than terrorism itself.

 

There is some truth to that. It is preferable for authoritarian police states to be inefficient in exercising their brutality.

 

Nicely stated...

 

I am not.

The minute you give in to fear - the terrorists win.

The minute you curtail freedoms out of fear - the terrorists win.

I will NEVER agree to curtailing rights.

If that is the only way for America to survive...let it die.

 

Gotta wonder how much the US spends on it's terrorism program? $100-$500 billion per year?

Of course all the spending is DEFICIT SPENDING so the tax payers are 100% sheltered from the financial impacts.

If it's $500 billion, and we assume there are 140 million taxpayers, each taxpayer is responsible for about $3571 of this cost per year!

Gotta wonder what the outcome would be if the taxpayers were told they must start funding Homeland Security costs to the tune of $3571 per person??

 

Whatever. Anarchism isn't welcome here any more than communism. Plese move to Somalia for a prime example of anarchy in action.

 

Here where? Here on this web forum? Here in my home? Here in some arbitrary chunk of geographic land mass that you neither own or control? The hazy weirdness of the authoritarian mind...

Now that you've said the word "Somalia," I get another nickel. Somalia actually improved under statelessness compared to what it had under a state. Would you move to Somalia if it had a state?