Am I A Democrat or Republican?

I respect Kennedy. Obviously the guy ended up giving his life for our country. I like some of his policies.

But yes, he was overrated as a President. I agree. He did a lot of good, but there was plenty of lousy decisions made during that time as well.


To whoever said that Obama is some far left wing liberal.....He is about as Liberal as Richard Nixon. Nixon taxed the wealthy at 61%, wanted universal health care, had strong relations with China.

Obama just wants to raise taxes on the wealthy to 37%, back where they were under Clinton.

 

This. Obama is more fiscally conservative than any Republican I've heard from yet, as so far all of his plans balance the budget far faster and with less economic burden.

Obama offered a trillion dollars in tax increases and three trillion in cuts, which was enough to avoid a credit downgrade, by the way.

Boehner responded with two trillion in cuts and nothing else. Republicans aren't even willing to cut as much as the President. Their claims of fiscal conservatism are for show and for votes and nothing more.

Anyone truly concerned with the budget would side with the President.

 

LOL! Are you serious?! He's spent 5 trillion in not even 3 years, and what do we have to show for it? How is that "fiscally conservative"? You're not just drinking Obama Kool-Aid... you're smoking Obama crack if you truly believe that "anyone concerned with the budget would side with the President."

Obama said it himself... you don't raise taxes in a recession. Considering the amount of waste, fraud, and abuse that has gone on in this Administration, why should anyone have their taxes raised to offset those losses? We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

Watch and learn, drone:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ[/ame]

 

You sound like a moderate Republican to me.

 

Yep...you are 100% correct.

Sadly Obama has LOST the P.R. battle and the right has the American people convinced that Obama wasnt willing to work with them, when he in reality approached these issues from a very Conservative starting point.

Obama is more or less a Moderate Republican. He is VERY much a Nixon Republican. Not corrupt like Nixon, but views on economics and even most social views are pretty Conservative.

 

Daniel; What your referring to is talk (rhetoric) for what he will do!!! He now has a three year track record telling a different story, action and talk have different outcomes. If you would like trying to explain the difference, remember he had a "Filibuster proof Congress", the first two years in office....



gamesetmatch; You are the Average American today, slightly right of center and most register Independent, where allowed....

 

Nice try attempting to paint the worst President of all time as a Republican. He's a liberal Democrat.... own it. First Carter, now Obama.

And he's way more corrupt than Nixon, by the way. Fast and Furious, Sun Power, Solyndra... just wait until the whole story behind this Green jobs scam is told. The fact that he isn't complying with a subpoena to turn over records of Solyndra makes him just as much of a crook as Nixon was during Watergate.

 

And his first two years were spent tackling issues that have more to do with debt than anything: the gdp to debt ratio is more important than any cuts or tax increases. By getting the economy growing again, the President shored up revenues and made sure that the ratio didn't grossly inflate.

He also made the mistake of thinking that Republicans would be reasonable. A 3:1 ratio of cuts to taxes is a conservative offer: if he was a far left liberal he would have the ratio reversed.

And no, that wasn't just "words", it was a specific proposal that Obama offered to the Speaker that he was willing to sign should Congress pass it. And Republicans refused to even consider.

 

lol the worst ever??

Come on, turn off your bias and look at this objectively.

We had Presidents like Andrew Johnson, Harding, Buchanan, Fillmore, Grant and George W Bush.

Bush was the one that lead us into the Recession. I guess you dont remember that. He led us into two worthless wars, he stripped away civil liberties in the name of "safety". He misled the nation on WMD's.

Now I dont necessarily think he was a bad person, but a horrible President. If it wasnt for Andrew Johnson I would call Bush the worst ever.

YES....Obama had a Filibuster proof majority and he instead focused on health care reform instead of getting to the heart of the economic problems. Of course part of the problem is that he tried to appease the Republican minority at that time. I support health care reform but it was wrong place, wrong time.

HOWEVER.....He extended the Bush tax cuts. We could cut 800 Billion dollars out of our deficit over the next 10 years by just doing that. Those were Republican tax cuts and he went along with them. He has continued a very right wing foreign policy. Not hesitating to intervene overseas and even escalated the war in Afghanistan.

Yes he bailed out the auto industry. It was the previous President who was in charge when the banks were bailed out.

The stimulus package was deemed necessary by the majority of economists. Yes there were some who disagreed with it. According to many, it staved off another Depression.

He ended DADT......Good for him!!!!

He killed Bin Laden.....You know that guy that Bush said he "Doesnt even think about anymore" (Since Saddam Hussein was more important??????????)

He just about has us out of Iraq in a responsible manner.

So lets see....

1. Health Care Reform-Probably depends on your political affiliation as to whether it was a good or a bad thing. I still have normal health insurance and my premiums are the same as they always were.

2. Economy-When he had political capital he spent it on Health Care reform. He deserves criticism for that. I agree with you. He most definitely has increased the debt significantly. Whether it staved off a great depression or just added to our debt is a well debated subject among economists. Whether YOU disagree with it or whether I agree with it, it is a highly debatebale subject. Certainly I think we would agree that he hasnt given us a thriving economy.

3. National Security/Foregin Policy--Repubs can say he leads from behind all they want but he has shown time and time again he will make big decisions. From Bin Laden, to Iraq he has been strong on defense. As far as I am concerned he has been great with Foreign Policy decisions.

4. Leadership--I think he has been a wimp in dealing with the Repubs and caving in to them far too often. The fact that Repubs wont raise the debt ceiling when Reagan did it 18 times shows their hypocricy. A few more executive orders would have been nice.

5. The scandals you talk about are nothing. Grasping at straws. I will bet you 50.00 bucks right now nothing comes from them because there is nothing to them.

He has been an average President. The one before him was the poor one.

 

Not only did Obama continue those two "worthless wars", but he added a 3rd one. Remember Libya? We're still there. The mainstream liberal media doesn't report on it much anymore, but we are still in 3 wars.

Obama continued the "Patriot Act". If it was such a bad idea, surely our liberal leader would have abolished it. He didn't.

Bush did not "mislead the nation on WMD's." It was a decision based on the available evidence that we had, at the time. The notion that he intentionally deceived anyone in order to go to Iraq is baseless, and is simply the result of people's desire to paint him as Hitler 2.0.

Obama is at the heart of our economic problems. He spent almost 5 trillion dollars in less than 3 years. No other President has ever spent like that. His policies have been absolute failures, and his anti-business class warfare narrative has alienated successful, productive people and driven them elsewhere. Now the crushing weight of our nanny-state welfare system will bleed the rest of us dry. The rich will only take so much abuse before they go somewhere else. Then what? Who will Obama blame then? He makes excuses for everything, and is only able to take responsibility when something goes well.

Correct.

Correct.

We're in a depression, now. If Government spending had not spiked up, we wouldn't have the wonderful 0.4% "growth" that we are experiencing. Cut Government spending back to normal levels, and we would have had declining GDP figures for years, now.

Bush knew that eventually Bin Laden would be killed. That quote was taken out of context. I agree that he should have focused more on Bin Laden, but based on the evidence at the time, Iraq looked justifiable.

No, he is planning to get us out early despite the warnings of his military advisors. He is only doing this so that he has something to run on during the 2012 campaign. Everything Obama does is through the lens of being reelected.

They have gone up for the majority of Americans, despite the fact that Obama promised that they would go down once his health care reforms went into place. He was wrong, or he lied. Obamacare is a huge cloud of uncertainty hanging over the heads of employers, who are unwilling to hire new workers because they can't tell, with any degree of certainty, what each new worker will end up costing them. This has kept the country's unemployment rate at high levels for the longest time period ever since the Great Depression.

Obviously. 5 trillion more in debt, with nothing at all to show for it.

His foreign policy started out by going to Iran and apologizing for America, making us look weak to the entire Islamic world. It is no coincidence that the amount of attempted terror attacks have increased on US soil since Obama took office, and why the entire Middle East is in a period of upheaval. They know that the US is not powerful anymore, and they are fighting to install a new Caliphate with no repercussions.

He has made plenty of executive orders and has avoided going through Constitutional processes to get what he wants. He is the epitome of the post-Constitutional Presidency. The debt ceiling shouldn't have been raised for the same reason that Obama said in 2007, when he was against Bush raising the debt ceiling. We have never taken on this much debt, and we have reached critical mass. We can't justify continuing to raise it simply because other Presidents have in better times. The economy was booming under Reagan's Presidency... it's on life support now.

Several billion in waste is "nothing" to you? Obama rewarding his campaign donors with taxpayer funded loans is "nothing" to you? This money that he spent was supposed to be an investment in America's future, but it only succeeded in his cronies cashing out by taking money, investing a fortune in their extravagant facilities, only to close up shop less than a year later. Now we are on the hook for it.

When you have a President and an Administration this wasteful, it makes us resist his cries of "shared sacrifice" that much more. I dont' feel like having more of my paycheck taken so that Obama can have money fights with his corrupt cronies in Washington. You can donate to it if you want, just leave me out of it.

The first President ever to have the US credit downgraded. The first President to run deficits this high, and reside over a debt this large. And there is no end in sight. The US is done if Obama wins in 2012. Mark my words.

 

Fair enough, but MUCH of this is your own opinion and there are many who would disagree.

The debt IS a big deal. I agree with you. Was it necessary to stave off a complete and total economic collapse? MANY economists say it was. Many have said we even needed to spend more for there to be a real difference made.

Wealthy people arent going anywhere. You do realize that taxes on the wealthy are at historic LOWS right now dont you? Now our corporate taxes are WAY too high. Obama however hasn't added anything to what they are forced to pay. Their tax rate has been the same for awhile. Then again they all know the tax loopholes and dont pay much of anything.

They were paying 61% under Nixon and 91% under Eisenhauer. I doubt 34% is keeping any wealthy people awake at night. Obama just wants to go back to the Clinton rate which I believe was 37%. It seems fair to me.

As for raising the debt ceiling though. Our credit wouldn't have been downgraded if it wasnt for the Republicans refusing to do something that Reagan and Bush did. The credit agency that downgraded it flat out said this. The Republicans blocked what should have been an easy decision. Not that it is ideal to have to do, but its better than the credit downgrade.

Again.....What SHOULD he have done? He was handed the worst economy since the Great Depression. He didn't cause it. The same big govt spending while keeping taxes too low on the wealthy and trusting bankers to do the right thing policy that the Right (and many in the left) have condoned for years is what lead us here. How do you spend like crazy and yet keep taxes low? This is what Bush did and thats at the root of our problems. You either cut spending if you are going to keep taxes at historic lows for the rich, or you increase taxes if you need to spend money.

As for foreign policy....He was right to apologize for our actions. Bush made us hated around the world. It doesnt make you weak to say "we were wrong". Wouldn't you like to hear our politicians say that more often to the American people??

I dont think that Bush intentionally misled us either btw. Like I said I think that Bush was more or less a good guy. Probably fun to have a beer with and talk Baseball. I DO think Cheney was the most crooked person to ever set foot in the white house but I just dont think Bush was very smart. The fact of the matter though is that we had CIA agents telling the govt that there were no WMD's in Iraq and Cheney outed them. That is Bush's Vice President, he deserves the blame for that. It wasnt intentional on Bush's end but he still lead us into a war with a country that posed no threat to us and has cost us thousands of lives and of course a huge amount of money. Obama is the guy who ended that war.

Both of the wars Bush started have lasted longer than WW2. That is just sad. As for our Generals telling Obama to stay in Iraq longer........why? I think you mentioned that you are former Military, if not I apologize but as former military, you know that the commanders on the ground are going to be perfectionists. They are overly cautious, and want to stay until every single, solitary last little nut and bolt has been tightened. That is why we have a civilian commander in chief. We cant stay there forever, its up to the Iraqis to fend for themselves. To fail or succeed on their own.

Im surprised you think these revolts in the middle east are a bad thing. People are getting rid of dictators and fighting for freedom. Maybe WE wont like the person they put in charge, but it is the PEOPLE in these countries who are standing up for themselves. I am glad we have supported some of it. We SHOULD have done that when Iran was having their mini revolution after the last election.

As for terror attacks....Could you please post a source to show that terror attacks have increased under Obama from where they were under Bush?? Also, im pretty sure Obama has kept us safe, something Bush wasn't able to do on 9-11.

Reagan and Bush Sr propped up Bin Laden with weapons. Clinton had a chance to take him out but didnt because he was trying to avoid further incident after the Lewinski scandal. George W Bush allowed Bin Laden to successfully attack us on our own soil.......Obama killed Bin Laden. Most of those other Presidents were chummy with Ghadaffi.....He is now dead under Obama. (by your own admission he took us into Libya, so by default he gets some credit for Ghadaffi being dead).


Again, as for the scandals there is nothing incriminating to Obama there. There isnt anything even remotely close to what Haliburton was doing.

Much of what you said is based on your own opinion and not actual facts. Which is fine because my counter point to many of those arguments is my own opinion. I am NOT a Democrat, I am a pretty liberal guy but not a Democrat. Obama isnt my messiah, he doesnt walk on water. He is a politician. So I think I am being fair when debating this topic. But just like some people act like Obama is FDR reincarnated, there are also people who hate Obama so badly that they wont even acknowledge the horrible economy he inherited. Did he fix the economy? NO!! He deserves criticism for that. I am RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!! But it would have taken a special President to know how to fix all of the problems that Obama was left with.

Foreign policy wise he was handed an enormous disaster and I think he has handled it brilliantly. I agree with MOST of the social decisions he has made domestically. I have some issues with his handling of the economy but where I differ from you is I believe Bush is the one primarily to blame.

 

I looked at all you points in the OP and I think you're a conservative "small L libertarian" who will be voting Republican next fall. Betcha.

 

Fair assessment. If Romney gets the nomination, he'll be voting Republican, if pretty much anyone else does, especially Bachmann or Cain, I feel that he'll vote Democratic.

 

I highly doubt he would vote for Obama. I see him voting for Romney or Ron Paul or Newt pretty easily.

Someone should tell him where to find that one political quiz though. With the graphs. Its a pretty accurate indicator of where you are.

 

He sounds fairly moderate. When someone is unsure of their positions like he is, they tend to be open to persuasion. Obama, being moderate and conservative in many areas, could possibly reel him in if pitted against an insanely conservative opponent.

I tried looking for it, no dice.

 

Well I hope you can persuade him, we need all the votes we can get. LOL.

Hey I found the link. OP take this quiz, it is pretty accurate as far as telling you where you are on the issues and you can compare it with some notable figures.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

I am to the left of Ghandi hahaha. Extremely Libertarian Socially and extremely Socialist Economically.

 

Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

Those are my scores.

 

Economic Left/Right: -6.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54




We're quite similar.

 

You are a Conservative Republican.

 

it sounds like he is more moderate. I have learned from experience that there is no room in the Republican Party for moderates. You get insulted and called a RINO if you deviate from the far-right ideologs.

 

His views on abortion and 2nd amendment make him Republican. I mainly vote republican for the 2nd amendment. I think both parties are dominated by the extremist. In my experience the democrats seem to do the most name calling if you disagree with them. I also notice that most everyone including my self has a strong libertarian lean. Why do we keep voting for the authoritarians?

 

I think you already made a good choice. I didn't see any of your views to make me think Democrat. Your views are far more Republican than mine. I vote that way just for 2nd amendment. I noticed that you said 2nd amendment except for assault rifles. You should research unorganized militia and the 1903 Militia act. To help clarify what the 2nd amendment is for and why it is there. They receive alot of publicity but a very small % of violence can be attributed to them. Making assault rifles illegal removes the heart and soul of the amendment.

 

I am a Democrat and I am extremely Pro- Second Amendment. Of course, I used to be a Republican and left the party when they decided to go all Extreme right. I also can say I never voted for President George W Bush (but I did vote for his father). I also do not believe that abortion should not be used as a form of Birth COntrol but I feel that the government should stay out of people's lives and that includes women's reproductive rights.

You also need to read the forums a bit more. Supporters of both parties call each other names and it is pretty equal on both sides. I listen to the COnservative talking heads (Rush, Hannity, etc) when I am on my way to class and they get off by name calling and stirring up their listeners.

 

You are not allowed to follow your own lead. If you do then you are an outsider looking in...a fence sitter. Pick a side and fight for whatever change you believe in.

 

Social Issues:
Pro-Life – For every human Body I control and no more.
Pro-2nd – You’ll be the First to find out if you F’ck with me.
Gay Marriage – I’m for people being happy with the one they Love.
Death Penalty – Yes … once there’s undisputable proof and not before.

Fiscal Issues:
I know how to balance a budget and it shouldn’t be hard to elect someone else who can … but remember, it’s our mess and we need to clean it up.

Military:
Smart Weaponry has proven Smart beyond a shadow of a doubt that it’s Smart Money.
Boots on the Ground had filled Arlington Cemetery.

Welfare Reform:
If we don’t take care of our own, then good luck convincing them to die for you while you’re on this Forum!