Why Obamacare is Constitutional

Without the mandate, the main part of the law, it is a different animal. Not the same thing that was voted on, especially when nobody even read it. It should be sent back to Congress.

 

I wish people would stop repeating that fallacy. NO ONE is required to buy auto insurance simply because they are alive. You are ONLY required to buy LIABILITY insurance if you are applying for a license for a vehicle you want to operate ON PUBLIC ROADS. And note it is LIABILITY insurance. It is to make sure that if YOU cause injury or damage to SOMEONE ELSE, that you are responsible for the cost of THEIR damage or injury. AND you can post a bond instead of buying insurance.

 

Apparently, legislation has to come with stipulations that if one part is struck down the rest is still valid. The 1st draft had such stipulations, the 2nd didn't. They cannot keep any of it if even one miniscule part is shot down. Not how Washington works. Have no worries, it will have to be reintroduced. But if you think insurance companies don't want the mandates, you're nuts. And if you think both parties won't do what the money tells them to do, you are also nuts.

 

One may also choose to not drive, and choose other transportation. Obamacare does not offer that flexibility.

 

This whole thing is Atlas Shrugged dipped in medicine. People think Atlas Shrugged was a book about the ills of socialism, but in fact, it was about the ills of crony capitalism. Not that Ayn Rand supported socialism, she just didn't support its ugly bedfellow either. We are living in the days she predicted.

 

Hopefully the new Congress will do what The People wish, instead of shoving it down our throats against popular opinion, like the 2008 Congress - the one that didn't read it.

 

There is hope. When the government tried to pass the internet legislation, and several sites held preemptive blackouts to scare the populace into freaking out, congress caved. All support died. If we as a people do not want these mandates, which I feel both sides studying this would not, we must rise above divides, stomp and scream. Can what's left of the GOP hardliners go against the wave and tell their sources we will not except without removal of mandates? Can what's left of democrat hardliners? Only time will tell. There will not be any companies with stock in the issue to get people riled.

 

To the die hard GOP supporters reading, the next time through it will be sold to you as golden, and will still have the mandates. The only thing taken out will be the small benefits the populace didn't have before, to turn the whole thing into a gold mine for insurance companies. You will have to swallow your devotion and see your party for what it is. The piece that got shot down will be reworded so now somehow the mandates will be legal. It is all a show. And in the end, it is up to you.

 

30 million people are uninsured, but all have a RIGHT to use emergency rooms at the hospita.

So, universal medical care is already in place, regardless of the claims of the liberals, the ddemogoguary of the politicans, and shaming of the system by Bill Maher.

The actual cost that is breaking the bank of the insuranced and government Medicare/Medicaide is due to the tge excessive use of the system by 10% of the people.


The 30 million people unisured who have been and must use the limited access of the Emergency Rooms are 10 million mexican illegals, 10 million young people refusing to buy insurance, and 10 million people between jobs and without coverage by an employer.


That's the facts.

Solution:

Focus on the 10% and get them the services that stop the drain on the Hospitals.

Add a Tax on uninsured people (those who can not provide proof of coverage at Tax Time), to fund a separate Government program for people who are not willing to buy insurance, but may need it, (rare as this is for those young uninsured) and have the government which condones illegal immigration fund the special program for uninsured in order to cover those 10 million.

Leave the employers and the Unions alone.

 

The whole reason mandates were justified to the public was insurance companies being forced to cover preexisting conditions. With that stipulation taken out, it turns into a win win gold mine for the entire medical profession. Medicine gets to keep its gouged prices. And now even young healthy people who don't want or need insurance are forced to help pay for them, through the middle man, the insurance broker getting his cut. Does anyone here really believe a bunch of politicians forgot to include the part that it passes even if mandates are declared unconstitutional? It is all a show.

 

The law though gives broad authority to the Secretary of Health to act that is key even without congress they can smack on fees and penalties on the adminstrative side, and Congress could pass a law or two.

On clear option is require states to require the mandate or face a loss of Federal funds. The Secretary on the Medicaid side could play hardball drop out or cover everyone but if you drop out of the added requirements you lose ALL Medicaid funding this is in the original law. Even the President by executive order I pointed out could respond with his authority. There are options out there to either get states onboard to mandate or compel people into the system but do so without the mandate.

So I would think taking out the mandate would be as far as they could go without striking down the whole law OR they strike down the whole law anything else would be judicial activism and making law. Unless they just take out the Medicaid expansion which is unlikely and leave the rest.

 

The law doesn't stay if any part is thrown out. Legislation has to have that clause written into it. They "forgot" with this piece. It is not a subject for debate.

 

Actually the House passed version had the severablity clause, that removing the mandate did not invalidate the rest of the law, and the Senate took it out.

 

LOL. Still you know what I'm saying.

 

Incorrect. Mandated car insurance is a terrible example since the authority for that isn't based on the commerce clause, but on the general police power (using that term in the legal, not law enforcement sense) that each state has.

The federal government does not have general police powers, it has enumerated powers. It's amazing that this ridiculous auto insurance analogy has gone on as long as it has since it has nothing to do with the health insurance mandate.

 

I have to say, the past few years have more resembled Rand's book than anything else I've seen in my lifetime.

Recent example, to protest high gas prices, the President proposes to remove tax deductions from oil companies. That will solve the problem!

 

I know right. God forbid we build some new refineries. The oil companies solution? Fight to build a pipe line from Canada to the gulf so they can ship oil off con. Because, you know, middle eastern oil has us by the balls. I don't trust anything. Kill everyone. Let God sort out the mess.

 

You complain after the cow has been stolen, and struggle to close the Barn Doow long after the Democrats have built a contingency of voters who get stuff for free from them and changed the moral climate in America that has resulted in a feminism that rules us by what is Politically Correct in the minds of people who just decide matters based on what they thinl "feels" right.

Half the country has the supreme court against the wall with a momentum based on what is Politically Right about the rich not paying for the poor people's demands.

The OP is a non-starter, because we are bout to discover whether it is constitutional or not, in June, when the court explains it all to us, one way or the other.

 

Car Insurance requires one to be licensed by the government which thereby is subject to government standards.

Federal Obamacare amounts to a head tax based solely on the license to exist.
Worse, it is a taxation without representation just because a person DOES exist.

People need to give more attention to what Nancy Polosy said about imposing jail on people who refuse to buy this Obama insurance.

 

http://www.woodringlawfirm.com/legal_conservative_blog/tag/obamacare/

The Legal Conservative

1.Congress has no Constitutional authority to pass this healthcare act, not authority under Art I, or specifically the commerce clause or the taxing and spending clause.
2.Congress, by depriving the states of control over their budget processes because of the unfunded mandates in this bill, has deprived the states of their sovereignty and the right to a republican form of government guaranteed under Art IV, Sec. 4 of the constitution.
3.Congress has violated the states’ 10th amendment rights by requiring that states and state employees be agents of the Federal Government to enforce Federal Regulation, without federal payment.
4.Congress imposing a tax penalty for failure to have insurance is a violation of Art I, Sections 2 and 9, in that this is a direct that is not apportioned among the states according to a census, and is unrelated to any taxable activity or income.
5.Congress imposing a tax penalty for inactivity or a failure to engage in an activity is in violation of the powers reserved to the States or the people under the 10th amendment, and is not predicated on any constitutional grant of authority to congress.

 

People are really foolish to think a corporation pays taxes.

Corporations have "bottom lines" which are set by "Stockholders' expectations."

To meet those "expectations," the companies can either reduce expenditures or raise prices.

This essentially means we, the end users, pay that tax add-on indirectly.
All corporate taxation does is raise the cost of domestic goods and services in comparision with foreign competition, which sends jobs either to tjose foreigners or keeps the jobs here.

 

What GOP supporters know is that insurance is not care, and care is not insurance. Liberals don't seem to understand that. You can't fix your transmission by baking a pie. Or better yet you can't fix your transmission by painting your car. Both have to do with the vehicle but are totally unrelated.
obamacare stupidly tries to fix health CARE by making Health INSURANCE outrageously more expensive. Do both need work? Yes, separately.

And the piece that got shot down will be reworded? That wouldn't even happen if it was with the coerced Congress that passed obamacare in the first place. This Congress, the House voted on and passed the REPEAL of all of obamacare last year. No way are they going to "reword" any part of obamacare and pass, again, the worst, stupidest, piece of legislative trash ever passed by a pure Democrat vote.

 

A distinction without a difference. The point is that in both cases, the government (state in the one, federal in the other) has legitimate authority to punish noncompliance.

On the contrary - the way you guys are reacting to the point (it's hardly the core argument in favor of the law), you're displaying what a powerful analogy it IS.

 

We are a representative form of government. I would like to see it played out that way. No executive orders and other mumbo jumbo that skirts around The People.

 

Constitutionally Obamacare is a non-starter. There is no power in the Constitution which would make Obamacre "Constitutional." The closest is below in Article 1, Section 8.

The Congress shall have Power...

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;​

The word "commerce" is defined below.

com•merce   /ˈkɒmərs/ Show Spelled[kom-ers] Show IPA
noun

1. an interchange of goods or commodities, especially on a large scale between different countries (foreign commerce) or between different parts of the same country (domestic commerce); trade; business.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce?o=100084&qsrc=2894&l=dir​

The vast amount of the healthcare industry is conducted within a state beyond federal government control according the Constitution.

To provide for the "General Welfare" is not an enumerated power anymore than it is to provide for the "Common Defense." There are many enumerated powers to provide for the "Common Defense," and to provide for the "General Welfare" but they do not include the power for Obamacare much to the dismay of the Treasonous Left (mostly Democrats).

This country is on the verge of destruction. We either return to founding principals in the Constitution or the country will collapse destroying Individual Liberty which is EXACTLY what Obama and his Comrades want!