How many of you here worked today? and by work I mean phisical, not BS careers

The government doesn't determine what my job is worth, the free market does. If you want to know what's wrong with Communism, all I can say is -- wow, there's a whole lot you don't know about this world and there's no way I could possibly get you up to speed in less than three years or so.

 

Motherhood does not have a negative market value. I give my wife my entire paycheck for her services as a wife and mother, and she decides how we spend it.

 

Never. ever. get defensive over what your hard work within a free market garners..... when you revealed your rates, I thought to myself
*let the begrudgement begin* lol.

 

At the end of the day, each of us has the responsibility to manage our own compensation. If we think we're being undervalued, it's either because we've failed to increase our visibility, argue our worth, shop around for the best opportunities, or because we just thought wrong. In any case, the fault is ours.​

 

Analyzing politics and writing opinions is a small facet of my job...interesting you don't consider it work. Let me assure you, it is.

I'm taking a break at work right now, so yes, I worked today.

 

I think you're out of touch.
The U.S. is a service based economy now, not manufacturing.

 

For how long? How long do you imagine this will last?

 

In order for manufacturing to return to the U.S. on the level of say, the mid-20th Century...labor costs must go down...
and not just the hourly wage, but benefits.

Companies can outsource manufacturing and ship the product to the buying markets cheaper than producing the products in U.S. markets.

Growth in service based jobs is here to stay, while manufacturing's hey-day may never return to it's former glory.

Unions have over-priced themselves out of the global market.

Between pensions and benefits alone, companies seek cheaper labor abroad.

 

Obama asked Steve Jobs a similar question. His answer was a long drawn out a sigh and "I'm sorry mr. President, those jobs aren't coming back." We need to look forward, not back. It's unlikely manufacturing, at least the way it's been done in the past, will ever come back.​

 

I'm not referring to manufacturing jobs. I mean jobs of "intellectual" and "service" nature...do you honestly think that our engineers can compete with the labor rates of Indian and Chinese engineers? Look at the college bursaries in China--they're only for engineering jobs.

As to Herkdriver's comment...I don't like to infer that people are foolish, so I'll just say that you're wrong. Unions have nothing to do with this. Chinese people work for $.45 an hour. I'll repeat: $.45 an hour. They can do this because they live in a centrally planned country. Jobs will come back when we make it less profitable to do business with them and that is by using their protectionist approach right back at them.

Will this happen? No. Our rich are neither patriotic or altruistic.

 

Unions have nothing to do with it?

You're naive.

General Motors, Chrysler...near bankruptcy...if not for Government intervention?

Why?

Staggering pension and medical plan costs for retirees negotiated by Unions...slicing into profits.

The automobile industry in America was destroyed by the United Auto Workers of America...

The car manufacturing plants now, are mostly non-Union.

Toyota, Honda...all building plants here, but hiring non-Union, non-UAW workers...moving to right to work States.
Heavily Union cities are in decline.

Numbers don't lie.

Once proud Detroit, an automobile manufacturing mecca... is now a boarded up, crime infested dump..

Thank you...UAW.


That's the bottom line up front, sorry you can't deal with it.

 

I am from Detroit. I hate when people point out that union as indicative of all. I'm sure you hate when people point at Klansmen and say that's indicative of conservatives, yes? And let me tell you about the CEOs of these auto companies...they are rewarding themselves with million dollar bonuses as the ship is sinking. Do you only get outraged when the middle class acts up or are you willing to share the blame?

Anyway, this is a single example and you're ignoring the forty five cents an hour that the Chinese are willing to work for. Did I mention $.45? Even with no union, our minimum wage cannot compete.

 

For ever.

The point of service jobs is convenience. I don't think many enjoy Chinese/Indian telephone service, don't think they'd like to have to call a Chinese lawyer for a cheaper rate to represent them in the US.

Why? The Chinese aren't all that protective and protective markets aren't the answer. Nor should it.

 

Your estimate is wrong, I assure you there are folks in China unwilling to work for $0.45 an hour. But yes, it's cheaper to get many things done in China. So that is where those things will get done.

Each country will have to find a competitive advantage in the world economy. China is more a middle ground between factories in the U.S. and ones with cheaper labor like Korea and other places. China has a good ratio of inexpensive labor to more expensive but still competitive middle management and highly skilled workers. It has an edge in, and is likely to hold the lead in, manufacturing.

But the best products in the world are still designed in the U.S. European pharmaceutical companies still rely on U.S. based research companies. Truly innovative literature and software seems to flow mostly from the U.S. Folks still come from all over the world to learn in U.S. universities where we challenge them in ways institutions in their own countries never could. I think the American way still creates unique value, that gives us an edge in different markets.

We do have the problem of a huge number of our folks crying for the security and comfort offered by socialist systems like those in China, people who for some reason expect they can live that lifestyle and still demand a better wage and lifestyle than a Chinese factory worker. Those folks are likely to be disappointed. Especially if they expect the difference between what they offer and what they consume to be made up by altruistic or patriotic neighbors.

But yes, our engineers and scientists can compete internationally. And folks in similar positions in other industries as well. There will also be demanding support roles for these folks that will pay quite well and can still keep our companies competitive. And yes America also has unique resources to leverage off of. I think jobs will come back when our companies position themselves to market and make use of the unique advantages of America. It just won't be the same jobs that we've already lost to China, Mexico, Korea, and elsewhere. Those jobs aren't coming back.​

 

I work in a fabrication shop.

We make equipment for sewage treatment plants.

Today...(since I have no machine work at the moment) I ground and finished stainless steel.

I used to work in a foundry...this is a lark compared to that.

Then I came home, got some hay for the cows, and fed the pigs and chickens.

Yesterday I dug post hole after work....only 15 to go!

 

Do you believe your job has more inherent value than my job, which is sitting at a desk writing briefs and motions?

If so, what is your basis for that belief?

 

I think all honest work is valuable.

I would not have you build my house any more than I would try to defend myself in court.

 

In addition to not knowing how to spell, you have no idea what work is. Work does not demand you either build or grow something. My children are, respectively, from oldest to youngest, a special education teacher, a cardiologist, a lawyer and a dentist and they work their butts off. Your post, coupled with your inability to spell a simple work like physical indicates you are just another anti-intellectual who has something against learning and people who have managed to get an education and do not have to perform physical labor.

Oh, and bye the way, I had one of those jobs not demanding physical labor or producing a product and because of that, I retired at a fairly young age. I spent today playing golf and I'm going to play again tomorrow.

 

*shrug* Maybe, but it's not all of equal value. There's a reason you pay the guy who cuts grass for you less than the guy who performs heart surgery for you -- you value it less.​

 

Well maybe.

But some work is way overpriced...Skill always pays more...as it should.

 

Dunno. I know some amazingly skillful folks whose work produces very little. Why should I pay them more, than folks with less skill who offer me more of what I value?​

 

This is useless........... bye.

 

And your sig goes well with the post. if most Americans would be like you and me, the country would be a much better place.

 

India does it cheaper

 

I didn't do anything today. I have the next few months off basically. Then the fall semester starts up again. Still have to take my ACT and placement testing, though. I plan to do that pretty soon.