Racism and Homophobia Should be Banned

A interesting view. And if this is some weird Skyrim type political online game. I want a wizards broom handle to smite the conservative hordes and bonus experience points if bush junior disappears from existance.

No, forget Rpgs. This forum is street fighter with the avaters screaming shoryuken! while shooting balls of fire.

Just a game people. Shoryuken!

 

I haven't gone back to read most of this but it appears from this page that anyone mentioning race on the right is deemed racist, homophobic, hatefilled, hater, and whatever else. Ironic really. A right winger cannot even broach the subject of race without being called any of the above and worse.,,YET. today, June 28, 2012, when the SC of the US abandoned the constitution to kiss the butts of the left wing power moguls running the country, we get to see how classy the winners are. "it's constitutional (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es. and Take THAT Motherfrackers. And now i just saw on twitter how the left refers to clarence thomas, an obvious black man, in the most vile, racist and insulting ways and i'll bet not one of you will have a thing to say about that.

 

Most racial epithets can be used as 'terms of endearment' however most of the time that is the case only if the usage is by the same races and if the conversation is friendly. Example; ie two whites friendly conversing one calling the other the c word or two blacks conversing one calling the other the n word. The tone and demeanor of the subjects make all the difference in most cases. The problem in a forum setting is when a moderator intervenes and makes a judgment call of racism. Like all subjective decisions the accuser always brings his own psychological baggage into the decision making process. The only mod I have spoken at length about this denies that they are effected by personal issues, either consciously or subconsciously. I disagree. I believe that individual emotional and psychological issues effects everyone and every decision one makes. Yes I agreed some effect may be slight but I am sure the effect is measurable. So for those reasons I think all subjective judgement calls by moderators, be they insulting a member, flame baiting, and yes racism, especially where the line blurs and the violation with infractions is not a clear cut case, are inherently libel to be unfair, and therefore should not be made. Perhaps exceptions or modifications to the rules or the process as to how infractions are made could be modified. Until then we the members will be suffer the consequences of subjective, inconsistent (from mod to mod), sometimes arbitrary infractions.

reva

 

Two whites talking to each other and call the other the 'c' word??????? WHICH word might that be?? THE C Word?? The one and ONLY, UGLY C word?? If that is the case, I don't think i have EVER been in a group of people where that word has been used and i hope to high heaven that I never AM.

additionally. Being a moderator is very subjective. It's hard to be totally fair seeing as everyone has their own filter and set of beliefs that color their decisions. Having said that, i'm sure they do they best they can. It's not a major concern of mine.

 

Whinnnnggggg....ha ha ~ that was my point whizzing right by...you missed it (I think). It does not matter what 'C' word is used, it could be a saltine ‘C’ word or if two women are insulting each other it could be the really nasty C word. It could be any racial epithet or insult etc. The point I was making was that an racial slur can be a ‘term of endearment’ (look it up as this is a repeat of what I said) in special situations. If I a southern white guy 6’1, 260 pounds, shaved head were to roll up in rough inner-city neighborhood and say to a young black guy in gangville blvd; ‘hey N what time is it ’ ? I would have a gun or at the very least a fist fight going on. However if friend of the same guy was to roll up and say ‘Hey N whazzzz up’ ? There would only be smiles and hand shakes. I was trying to show the extent of how far subjectivity goes in some cases.

You mean a moderator has to make decisions based on subjective criteria? Yes, I said that and of course agree. Still that is not a good thing! The more subjective the infraction is the more subjective and prone to being unfair and in error the decision becomes! Some peoples (mods) criteria etc that they use to make those subjective decisions is very different than the member they are judging. I was saying there should be some changes made to the rules to make them more precise and clearer so both the mod and the member will benefit. I have always supported the difficult work that moderators unselfishly donate to our forum. I do not blame them for having to make subjective calls. I do blame the vague and sometimes conflicting rules etc that the mods must use in making decisions.

Yes, it's nearly impossible if not impossible to be consistent when one combines vague rule set with infractions that may or may not break the rules. So what we end up with is sometimes a post is infracted and sometimes an nearly identical post isn't infracted. We haven't even began to scratch the surface of other reasons that infractions of a subjective nature are sometimes unfair etc. Some of those are under or over-reporting of posts that violate the rules, under manned staff, etc etc.

How many infractions do you have? Ha ha.... eh... O ?

reva

 

you might be surprised at the number of infractions i have. And i don't get it either. I'm such a fuzzbunny.

 

I think if we banned what we felt to be racism or homophobia, it would necessarily be abused sooner or later. We shouldn't ban people for their opinions, no matter how offensive they may be, because that can and will keep some legitimate discussions from ever taking place. An opinion of some racist who despises black people saying blacks shouldn't have rights is different from a racist who actually is threatening someone, if I'm making any sense. Just my opinion.

 

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Overt abuse of any sort, including thread derailing should be cause for at least a ban from that thread. This could be done with the help of the like/dislike function. After x amount you are kicked from the thread. After y amount you get banned. Also, moderators should refrain from policing the thread they are actively taking part in. Some are quite transparent in their action. Thing is, PF is supposedly a place where people can debate about their different point of views, and at one time it was just that. That was in the past. Today PF is a mix of stormfront and silly conspiration site. The Latest world news section is about 99% Israel and Jew bashing, the current event section is filled with the same crap posted in 4 or 5 variant of the same subject. Let's not get on the subject of the religion subforum shall we?

Come on mods, let's try to save this forum and bring it back to what it was a couple of year ago.

PS: you should also do something about the sock puppet. Some are bloody obvious.

 

Most disturbingly is the fact that the rule against hate speech, that is part of the standard Vbulletin "agreement" upon signing up has been removed from the sign up agreement on this forum

That says it all really. I have learnt to ignore the worst and simply report what I think are infractions. Usually those who are racists and homophobes have no manners either and will not refrain from personal attacks - so they eventually get banned simply for being ******holes and nasty ones at that. Unfortunately I do think the "Perma ban" ceiling is too high and it takes an awful lot of infractions for someone to be banned

 

Good post IMO Eaol. Yes I agree, however (there is always an however eh?) with your comment about saying racist remarks should be allowed if they follow the guidelines set by PF and some other good forums. By that I mean no insults. The tone and the way a post reply or thread is worded and composed means everything, that is the thrust of my prior posts in this thread. I joined storm front about a year ago thinking it was something other than what it was. Even with that name I thought I could discuss racial issues without the same PC bull crap that infects the world now. However Storm Front was way more abusive and racist even though its against their TOS to suggest violence.

Some of the mod supported material posted at SF was so repulsive that I sued them to delete my account in federal court. (they like almost all forums claim everything we write is their property and they will not delete accounts!). They eventually capitulated without going to court, paid my court filing fee and expenses my (ex) wife was a attorney so I and they got off cheap) and they admitted to breach of contract. The moral of that; BE CAUTIOUS as to what you join and what you say after a member. Anyway it would be nice to have a forum where racial issues could be discussed like 'grown ups' and not be afraid of getting infracted banned or otherwise mished and mashed in a politically correct instrument. Don't confuse that statement with me saying I advocate being allowed to insult individuals regarding race. That said I certainly, absolutely do not agree with any suggestions of violence as a means to an end in any circumstance! (save for self defense).

reva

 

I have never been warned or infracted for racist comments, still I do wonder why the agreement has been removed. There are far more race intolerant members here than there were just a year ago. Maybe the people that set forum policy are joining rather than fighting the race intolerant members? Reasons could be many such as in the end most of these forums are business first, free speech and ideals of personal liberty etc second?

The amount of warnings before more serious actions such as banning seem to be fully arbitrary and non-consistent. Some members may receive two warnings then a ban some may receive many warnings and never a ban. Most forums use the same procedures. I would like to see far more consistency in the application of rules and what the rules really say, and a more precise set of rules. All of the above said, IMO the mods do a good job especially considering wording of the rules etc.

reva

 

Clearly the majority of American posters are violently homophobic and obsessively racist, so it is a bit difficult to see how the mods can deal with this sick squalor.

 

It certainly should not be banned, what are you on about? Freedom of speech includes racism and homophobia. You dont like it, heck, I dont like it at all, but I would never agree with any ban. If you dont want to see racism and homophobia, nobody is forcing you to look at those topics. Control freaks disgust me even more than homophobes and racists.

A completely ridiculous comparison. Nobody should be restricted just because of your hurt feelings. Sticks and stones, people!

 

What have you got against decent people planning 'terrorism'. You another of these pinko liberals born on Mars, are you?

 

Yeah, us Americans.... Church sunday mornings, monday night football, friday and saturdays are for partying, and Saturdays are exclusively reserved for violently attacking homosexuals.

 

What about Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays?

Even God only required one day!

 

To be honest violently attacking homosexuals is something every good American should work into their schedule every day. At the very least get an insult or 2 in each day. For this reason true patriots live nearby big cities so there are tons of gay clubs and organizations that can be harassed.

(for you morons out there I'm joking)

 

I agree with a lot of this and posted a thread a couple of weeks back asking if the racist conspiracy threads can be moved into conspiracy. These are almost invariably anti-Islam in the threads I have read, but it's the same premise. They are racist and a lot of utter nonsense. That is all well and good on grounds of freedom of speech, but the rest of us are being obstructed in finding any kind of fact based debate because the forums are entirely consumed by racist tripe.

I hardly post anywhere these days except off topic for that reason. The Euro forums are just one idiot racist conspiracy after another. That is not political, it's a lot of inaccurate, repetitive conspiracy rubbish. Islam is taking over Europe. No it's not, evidence evidence evidence. Next thread...Islam is taking over Europe. Everyone else...not it's not, evidence evidence...

There is a race relations forum somewhere isn't there? Or even conspiracy theory forum. Can't they go in there and let us discuss politics?

 

I'm really curious, is there ever a time, even a fraction of a second, where you sit back and wonder why nobody takes you seriously?

 

Frankly, advocating a ban on racism and homophobia just lends them more sympathy. And rightly so. If something is wrong, which these ideologies are, then should NEVER need/require a ban.

 

I think everyone no matter how foolish or stupid they are deserve a right to express their foolishness.

 

You are a Welsher...or an Welshee ? that doesn't sound right... a Welshiest...no ummm' an Welshmerican?...Hmmm'...from wales eh? (just attempting to bring some levity to a mean reply...)

A when I was in the UK, London England, and parts east, Wales was considered very racist! In fact the racist heritage of wells was known to everyone in the UK in a similar fashion to the deep south is known to everyone in the USA being racist, even if either is not, or the racist component is exaggerated (some areas of the south and here in the mountains or Ea Tn is heavily racist, however that could be said of anywhere in the USA save for Frisco...maybe).

Welshers' according to UK'ers are clannish and again just in the south or hillbilly land deeply suspicious of anyone not from Wales. For general information hillbilly is like the N in that one HB can call another HB a HB as a term of endearment. However if used by a non hill folk especially in an obvious demeaning way, well that is a insult/slur of a high order! That said yes, I am a hillbilly and trust few people that are not a hillbilly or rednek, not to be confused with redneck, just sayin'...what????.... you wanna fight about it? Ha ha..yes that was a funny...got to be careful here in the new PF! Lastly, mercifully so, Americans particularly the USA are a diversified lot as are PF members from the USA. Blanket statements are overwhelmingly inaccurate, yours is no exception. Some members here, regardless where they are from are rabidly anti-racist while some are moderately anti racist, of course some are heavily racist.

NOTES & some validation sources/general information;


BBC News - Racism scarring grassroots football in Wales
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17324855
Mar 11, 2012 – There have been a number of racial incidents at football matches in Wales over the past year, including last April when a linesman at a Welsh ...

[PDF]
Racist victimization in England and Wales
eprints.lse.ac.uk/.../Racist_victimization_in_England_and_Wales_(LS...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by B Bowling - 2003 - Cited by 3 - Related articles
Wales which were thought to have been motivated by racism in 1997 (Percy 199. ..... and believed that 'failing to adapt' to English customs (wearing traditional...

Group's bid to tackle rising tide of racism | This is South Wales
http://www.politicalforum.com/forum...o.uk/Group-s-bid...tide-racism/.../story.html
Jan 12, 2012 – RACIST incidents among young people in Swansea are on the rise, according to a city-based ... Profile image for South Wales Evening Post ...

There is more if needed; Google traditional racism Wales...Heck I don't have to verify the deep south and mountain areas being racist in the USA do I? I do agree with the thrust of the OT. We should eliminate racist insults or at least give very, very, specific rules as to what can and can not be said concerning racism, because racism runs from the obvious to the difficult to determine to impossible to determine (what is and what is racist comment as per the current rules).

reva

 

All of what you have written is actually entirely irrelevant to what he said. Whether the UK is home to a lot of racism (it is) does not in any way change his point (however inaccurate) that there are considerable numbers of Americans on this forum that are extremely racist and homophobic. Dont employ ad hominems and non sequiturs Rev, it doesnt move the discussion forward.

 

I cautiously think members should be able to express racist beliefs. However, no one should be allowed to use obvious intentional insult, especially racist insult. It only leads to flame and arguing, lowers the forum to the slop trough intellectually and morally IMO.

reva