After all the bullcrap we listened to from the Big Middle Eastern Experts, in the Dinosaur Media,here at PF,and, most notably, the Obama ADm., about how the "arab spring" was the emergence of "democracy", I'd say it's safe to state, given current events, that we've gone straight to the "arab winter", indeed. The blundering Keystone Cops buffoonery that is the Obama ADm. Foreign Policy/ Clinton State Dept., has been ABSOLUTELY WRONG in nearly EVERY CRUCIAL JUDGEMENT that has faced them over the past nearly four years. Their weak-kneed, stumbling, kowtowing to the islamists in the world, has led DIRECTLY to the anti-American violence, yet they still keep trying to blame it on a 13-minute YouTube video: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arab Winter? Unrest sparks debate on US policy WASHINGTON (AP) — Has the Arab Winter arrived? It's a question analysts in Washington are asking as angry demonstrations spread across North Africa and the Middle East to protest a video ridiculing the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Those skeptical of promoting democracy in Muslim countries and those who fear a rapid decline in American influence may see their suspicions validated. Even among those who've championed the end of Middle Eastern autocracies, the level of anti-American rage wrought by the film has been ominous. U.S. embassies and consulates have been breached this week in Egypt, Libya, Yemen and Tunisia — the same four countries to rid themselves of decades-long dictatorships in what became known as the Arab Spring of revolutions last year. In Libya, the only place the U.S. used its military to ensure regime change, the violence was the worst, claiming the life of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other embassy staffers. The unrest from Morocco to India is rekindling a debate that has been ever-present within the U.S. government and has raged in U.S. foreign policy circles since a Tunisian street vendor lit himself on fire and set off the Arab Spring of protests in January 2011: Is the new reality of greater freedom alongside greater instability good for the Muslim world? Is it good for American interests? The ensuing instability since the ouster of Mubarak and Tunisia's Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, the death of Gadhafi and the power transfer deal ending the reign of Yemen's Ali Abdullah Saleh has led some foreign policy experts — particularly conservatives and former Bush administration officials — to question whether Washington acted unwisely by siding with the protesters. Such language has even crept into the presidential campaign, with Republican Mitt Romney vowing to "strive to ensure that the Arab Spring is not followed by an Arab Winter." After 20 months, the Arab Spring continues to polarize even conservatives, dividing those who see in it the triumph of freedom from those who criticize Obama for abandoning traditional friendships with leaders like Mubarak and say he helped usher in instability and the rise of political Islam. Administration officials say they aren't looking at the current crisis through the prism of the Arab Spring, and note that demonstrations have occurred in stable and instable countries, and those with governments both friendly and hostile to the United States. The protests are occuring for a variety of reasons, analysts cautioned, including domestic anger with governments still unable to deliver good jobs and better living conditions. "Look at Egypt: Who are these guys?" asked Haim Malka, a Middle East specialist at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "They are young men, unemployed men, angry about the lack of change in their societies." Still, he said regime changes from Tunis to Sanaa "have released violent anti-American forces that the previous regimes largely kept in check." The violence at U.S. diplomatic installations "raises questions about the ability and the willingness of the new governments in the Middle East to impose order, and also to cooperate with the U.S. on a whole range of activities." http://news.yahoo.com/arab-winter-unrest-sparks-debate-us-policy-185914953.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Obama's response? CONTINUED ASSKISSING and APOLOGIZING, today promising to "prohibit torture" and to "close Guatanamo Bay" (where have we heard THAT BEFORE?), as he clearly feels the US MUST BE AT FAULT for these attacks... Once again...what Obama/Hillary Clinton, and the Left in general understand about the nature and motivations of the islamists who are ATTCKING US ON US SOIL as you READ THIS, wouldn't FILL A THIMBLE....
Well, when I was in Turkey--true story--the man I bought my toe rings from thought Hillary was attractive, so...
I find it amusing when old cartoons return to immediacy! Can't we ALL just recall the Republican rhetoric of the TRILLIONS we spend on wars of bringing "Freedom" to the Middle East? We see in REALITY it was all about making Iraq a FREE country for oil companies bribe and steal oil they couldn't get to before, but alot of people LIKED the idea of getting rid of Western-sympathetic dictators from stealing their citizen's wealth and torturing and jailing them while the dictators being cooperative "allies" of America! Well, sorry, Righties! Your own rhetoric comes to bite you on the butt!
Poor guy. Of course, he may well have been forced to compare her to his camel... Meanwhile, the islamist savages continue attacking us on US soil,while the Obama Adm. remains PARALYZED, only able to muster the strength to APOLOGIZE SOME MORE....
More complete idiocy. Oddly enough, our embassies in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN remain UNDAMAGED,and UNDER NO THREAT. "Bush Doctrine" vs "Obama Groveling"...way to shoot your own pathetic, attempted argument down in flames..... Meanwhile, in the OBAMA-SUPPORTED "ARAB SPRING" HELLHOLES: Anti-American fury sweeps Middle East over film http://news.yahoo.com/anti-american-fury-sweeps-middle-east-over-film-003133374.html
You do know that most revolutions have a pattern to them? Overthrow, a weak government, a "reign of terror", weak government, one person rule, democracy. If anything, chances are we're entering a reign of terror, but once the radicals pass, we get our weak government. It may not be today, tommorrow, or even a year from now, but it will happen.
There no concept for Arab Winter, Its all about the Arab Fall, it ain't winter yet, and fall seems far better a term for what we see... It seems the administrations's goal has been bucked... We actually need to think on it.... No fears the libs will let it pass, like everything else....
Sorry bro, its the Arab FALL, its seasonal enough, but the drop from being democratic to Sharia, is a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing fall, I only advise we take a mutual concept of what it became, a FALL.... Sorry bro, its a thing , I think there is more traction on the Fall thing...
Hi Folks. Had to come on the net and just leave my two cents on an American site. I watch scenes like what we're seeing all over the middle east, and I wonder -'what the hell do you do with these people? It's like they're years behind the rest of us. Here in Ireland we had some pretty extreme conservative Catholicism. I know that you guys had a certain amount of intolerence among bible belt Protestants too. But these Islamic boys are at a level that the rest of the world left behind centuries ago! I mean all of this because of a ridiculous film! What the hell is wrong with them? I could be critical of American policy in the middle east. It hasn't been perfect. But these OTT reactions from intolerent zealots are getting really tiresome. You look at this, you look at what happened on 911 and you just wonder how are we going to sort this out? And I say we, because it's a probelm for all of us westerners. To them, we are all legitimate targets. Any Irishman who thinks we are not a target of these guys is delusional. Any Irishman who hasn't seen the surnames of those Americans who died on 911 should have a long hard look at them and then tell me that Ireland hasn't been attacked. Equally though, you look at how Ireland overcame the worst terrorist campaigns of the 20th century and you realise that it is possible to put these people out of business. The trick here was to isolate them, to marginalise them within their own communities. It took time, and we'ree still not out of the woods, but we are at a stage where the few terrorists who want to keep on fighting have very little support, and the violence should die with them. Various British administrations tried beating the terrorists with the big stick. That policy failed ..... for four decades. Much as America might like to engage the terrorists, I'd urge you to learn from our experience. These guys will go away, only when their own communities cast them out. They'll probably do a lot more damge before then, but unfortunatley I cannot see any reasonable way of preventing that inevitable evil.
You know that our foreign policy has alienated our STAUNCH ALLIES ( Poland, Israel, for example), and emboldened our enemies, the entire Middle East of Islamists, except for those where G W BUSH brought Freedom. For some reason, THOSE EMBASSIES REMAIN UNASSAILED...only the Obama Assited "arab spring" HELLHOLES are erupting, for some reason....and none of them have MENTIONED BUSH...just OBAMA, as far as US leaders go. OWN IT....
What about those 12 embassy attacks that occurred when Bush was Prez? It's been part of American foreign policy since FDR to bring democracy to the Arabs. http://www.nisk.k12.ny.us/fdr/1943/43_gifs/large/43030603.GIF If we had pushed for it more in the 1950s instead of supporting dictators we might have prevented the problems that we have now.
Ya gotta wonder how people remain so clueles and lost! The embassies in Iraq and Afghanistan are under CONSTANT threat! That's why they carve out enormous PROTECTION ZONES (the GREEN ZONE in IRaq) around them, with HIGH levels of military force, surveillance, and intelligence going on 24/7. Servicemen there talk of mortar shells flying in now and then. What goofy talk.
I'm not sure that seasons are a good description of Ialamo's, it more like a smoking pit, like a gateway to hell kind of thing.
I agree but the important matter is how these radicals will pass. Will they be overthrown by their own people in exchange for a friendlier government? Or will someone like the US remove them through war?
The "Arab Spring" was the mirage of the "Arab Winter of Discontent" in the Arabian Desert. Taking a look at the current event from another angle, please see http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...ave-egypt-radical-muslims.html#post1061713645
I think Obama's problem is that he hasn't done anything definitive. A good leader will go one way or another with decisiveness. The U.S. can lead or it can wash its hands of it all. Personally, I would prefer washing our hands of the entire muslim world. I would remove financial aid and emabassies from these 7 countries and watch the middle east as a fairly disinterested bystander. But I would prefer that we lead decisively rather than doing what we're doing. Make a policy and pursue it boldly. Our leader, unfortunately, is a follower. He follows public opinion and perceived votes. He needs to stand for something.
Washing our hands of the islamo world would just make them more violent, they need firm boundaries to keep them in check. Its just who they are. And, as we so clearly see, Obama does not have a firm hand. Its a result of being a feminized progressive leftist loser. Its just who he is.
The "problem" is NOT POLITICAL. The Left remains CLUELESS as to the motivations of the islamists, despite them telling us DAILY....
"Clueless" describes the Left's inability to regocnize the COMPLETE FAILURE of the Obama Grovel , Apologize and Pay Foreign policy, and their continued ignorance in regards to the origin of the islamist attacks
Valid question. It can go either way. If we're using the French revoultion as reference point, that lasted the summer. But at the same time, the reign of terror was fuled by invasions as well, notably by Prussia. Either way, it's coming.
