Debt Ceiling Showdown: GOP Pledges To Extract Cuts From Obama

The Baby Boomers are pretty well off in comparison to the age cohorts that are coming up behind them. All they need to do is live and use up all the money in SS and Medicare. That sort of screws the youngsters, but hey...it is what it is.

 

Another problem just occurred to me. This presupposes that revenue increases would be dedicated to those programs. As with SS the money would probably be spent on new programs and replaced with the traditional IOUs.

 

Indeed. The best course of action is for Baby Boomers like myself to prevent any changes to SS and Medicare so that we drain the systems and bring the house of cards down like Samson did to the Philistine Temple.

 

I find the generational part of this interesting. I'm in my early 50s and when I talk to the younger generation I just can't seem to get the idea across that I'm not worried about myself but about them. They seem to not be able to get around the "evil businessman" scenario. I must be trying to dupe them. Personally, if there is a price to be paid, put it on me not my children.

 

I share your sentiments. Those who lack the ability to think critically and analyze their own self interest might as well be dumb beasts. Consequently, their futures will close in around them when they notice their declining standards of living. It's too bad, but they deserve what is going to happen them.

 

Interestingly, I find many are just parroting their parents. I always rag the parents by saying "they're kids, they're supposed to make mistakes, what's your excuse". Seldom goes over well.

 

Obama is on his last term he should issue an executive order when needed invoking the 14th Amendment, Section 4 authority as president to protect the debts of the nation as an emergency measure until Congress passes a budget to meet the need. He has nothing to lose and when this hits the Federal Courts he has a firm position the Constitution required the debts be paid and be kept good that overrides all Congressional laws on the matter, the US Constitution under our system being the Law of the Land.

If upheld in the courts the Republicans lose any advantage and while its winding through the debts will be paid as needed.

If not upheld he cannot be impeached for trying to execute a power he thought he had and was backed by legal experts, not all but enough to make his defense sound.

He is not going to re-electable so why not try?

 

When we make cuts, it's up to the departments to properly cut the waste. They have a choice to give the checks to a mom with her 5 kids, or someone they suspect is doping. If they are inept to do so, it is THEM who are screwing the people that really need it. Time for Department Secretaries and Managers to get serious about waste. We can't afford it anymore, so much so that the spot light if finally on them.

 

One set of parents did and the other did not. We are fully ready to take her in if need be. Cuts will be painful for everyone, but must be done. Here's what the left doesn't undestand. Their benefits WILL get cut. Some day, some how....we CANNOT sustain this spending. The Republicans are trying to do it on our own terms, when we are "somewhat" prepared to deal with it. The left would rather just impode out of the blue and live the rest of their lives feeling sorry for themselves.

 

I don't think he wants to get too blatent in breaking his oath to uphold the Constitution. He knows that the military WILL uphold their oath and defend the Constitution.

 

I don't think he wants to get too blatent in breaking his oath to uphold the Constitution. He knows that the military WILL uphold their oath and defend the Constitution.

 

The right is welcome to end the drug war, whenever they want.

 

I agree , but so is the left ...

 

i second your motion.

 

While you are on solid legal ground, the damage would most likely be far worse than a simple shut down. You run a real risk that the stock markets would tank and interest rates soar which dramatically worsens your debt problem. All that is needed is the bone head Republicans to publicly state they will not honor any debt Obama runs up. I don't think it would stand up to judicial review, but the damage would be immediate and perminate regardless of the court ruling months later. While a self imposed Armageddon should be unthinkable, I've already seen these zealots say equally stupid things and I'd no longer put it past them.

 

Excuse me here is the section of the 14th Amendment for consideration:

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

It seems black and white plain language rare for the US Constitution that the validity of the debts as incurred by law shall not be questioned and by default that means must be paid for. He is on solid ground if its an emergency measure as the Executive of the nation to pay necessary debts until Congress passses a bill to meet the demands, in fact a court would have to take it in this case as highest law of the land over even Congress. If anything Congress is violating their oaths the second the debt ceiling is a critical issue not the president.

He has a firm ground here if its used properly and he can go to the voters and day he only did it because Congress gave him no choice but to act, and it will only be in effect until Congress passes needed vital legislation.

And he won't need the Republicans here he can order the Treasury to keep raising needed money under his authority, bypassing Congress. The US Constitution trumps all other powers its the law of the land and the highest law of the land and you know that and in this case the language is pretty simple debts must be honored.

It needs to just be in place on his end with a clear message to both houses of Congress and the world the debts will be honored if they refuse to do what the US Constitution demands I will act and am ready to go to court to defend my action.

 

"Debt Ceiling Showdown: GOP Pledges To Extract Cuts From Obama"

or what? they will damage the economy? yeah America would love them for that

 

Amen, and release those arrested for victimless drug possession charges from prison, we can't afford that war and it's not doing any good for society

.

 

You seem to be disregarding the second half of the sentence that says, "authorized by law." Laws are made by congress. The current law set a ceiling on the amount that can be borrowed, and unless that limit is raised, the treasury will no longer be able to borrow more funds. To do so would violate the clause that you quote above.

 

I don't contest that it would be legal, but that doesn't mean it would be well received. It undoubtedly be taken to court by the House, ( Constitutionally allocated power of the purse ) in a prolonged turf war. It wouldn't matter who won or even if was even ruled on, the damage would have already been done. All that needs to happen is to spook the markets or have the U.S. debt downgraded again and you've got financial meltdown on your hands. It doesn't take months, weeks, or even days. You can dump the world into recession / depression in a matter of hours. Nothing I can think of could spur a meltdown in today's fragile economy like a Constitutional stand off of the U.S. Government over its 16 trillion dollar debt.

 

I agree to you to a point. Obama has a very strong stance on the War of Drugs however with him constanly battling states that are passing drug laws he doesnt agree with. Nevermind he is a self admitted former pot head himself...

 

So you are saying any cuts would "damage the economy" or particular cuts?

 

Why not demand that all foreign aid be cut first before entitlements are touched?

 

No I'm not they were authorized to be funded when Congress created the agency or program and ordered funding it depends how you spin it in the Executive Order and justify it. I would make the case the Congress for example set-up the armed forces by law and ordered military actions against certain foreign enemies, so that must be funded by the government after that point as needed. They set-up the EPA and that then must be funded. It was demanded by Congress when they made the agency one of the US governments Federal Agencies and therefore a Federal obligation.

Unless your saying for example we can declare an act state of conflict, deploy our forces to foreign soil then not pay them when we have to that is the case your making?

 

Its going to happen sooner or later, sadly it might be best to do this now over later? Seriously we are a large nation with food and natural resources and if we just enact emergency powers and ration essentials, we could provide for all our current citizens for a long time. Give them housing, food, medical care and work and a new Federal currency and seal our borders we could wait this out and in a few decades come out stronger than before. We go down China and other nations will have their own problems and are far less able to provide things like we can it will also spur alternative energy and other measures nothing spurs innovation then great need after all.

I would say plan to use the 14th Amendment measure and prepare for a state of general emergency with the needed actions behind the scenes if things do tank like you say we can as a nation default on all our debts, recall our armed forces and seal off our nation. And then wait things out.