OK LIb s, let's think this "assault weapons" ban through with math and logic...

So the ban reduced access all the while AR-15's were still sold and produced for civilian sale?

Thats nice.

You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?

 

He owns handguns so he's cool with those...even though they are responsible for exponentially more deaths than are semi-automatic rifles.

 

Sandy Hook isn't the single most deadly one-man gun attack in US history. I believe that would be the VA Tech Massacre where the shooter used two handguns.

 

Regarding the power of your 'target rifle'. Are you referring to the charge or the caliber?

The AR-15 is a low caliber firearm with a high charge. It's designed for rapid-fire body penetration. After all, it was originally designed for military use.

No sxxx about VT. I've explained this many times. That particular assault was carried out in two separate attacks roughly two hours apart. The attacker used 19 magazines. Some with a capacity of 10 rounds. Some with a previously banned capacity of 15 rounds.

Again, Virginia Tech was carried out in two separate attacks. Previously banned 15 round magazines were used. Those two circumstances in particular contributed to the record-high body count for a 'mass shooting'.

But Sandy Hook Elementary was the single most deadly one-man gun attack in US history.

 

So, I did go back to read all of the posts, including mine to see if you were correct-I came in on this conversation on page 43---& one more time I will state that this is the "opinions & beliefs" section of the forum-what I found is,first off,it seems or appears, like, you like to goad people into an argument "that is where I said " tired old GOP rhetoric" I;m sorry,I don't believe I made any accusations toward you that were made up or assumtions--I was responding to your written words-I did stay on topic--But your right ,I did call ole Ace a" bitter old man" & I guess BLAH-BLAH-BLAH- was not very nice.I should have understood better,that your feelings might get hurt. I still believe everything I said,but, Sorry ......

 

74% > .4%

/End thread

 

Actually, no it wasn't originally designed for military purposes.

I am referring to foot pounds of energy. My target rifle pushes 4,000ftlbs. of energy while the 5.56NATO pushes 1,300ftlbs of energy. The 5.56NATO does not have a high charge, compare 25.5grs. of BLC-2 in the 5.56NATO to nearly 70grs. of 4345 for the .300Winamg. Charge refers to the powder load, and does not necessarily correlate to power.

My target rifle is three times more powerful than my AR-15.

As for VT tech, two handguns. Reloading a handgun doesn't take much time. You are attempting to justify your argument with your non-existent understanding of firearms.

 

It is illegal to hunt large game with that weapon because it lacks sufficient power to humanely kill! Tell you what! Lets go bear hunting! You takes an AR-15 with whatever load you want with one 30Rd clip and I will take my handgun (revolver) and a pocket full of rounds! Lets see who becomes bear food!

The .223 with a SXBT is the perfect round for pelt and small game hunting. More powerful than the .22 MAG and not a barrel burning pelt buster like the .220 swift.

You should study a little:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

 

What objection can there be to a class of Arms that is specifically meant for persons who are unconnected with service in the Militia of the United States.

 

It looks scary and they are ignorant of the facts! That is the objection!.

 

Now we understand why any discrepancy should be in favor of States' rights. The Second Amendment clearly enumerates what is necessary to the security of a free State and not the People. Why resort to so awkward a form instead of merely being silent on the issue, if we are to believe the claims of gun lovers in the private sector, with private sector motives and concerns.

 

Why not have the govern and lead by example?

 

It probably only requires a culture of militia service to our republic.

 

What I can't figure out is if you're intentionally lying, or believe what you're saying and are just misguided. But, here's the raw data for the top 10, you'll note that in only 3 of them were so-called assault weapons present. The data does not specify which weapons were actually used, we know that in Sandy Hook all the victims were the Bushmaster, it's likely the Aurora case most of the dead were NOT from the "assault weapon" because it jammed shortly after he began firing, and the "assault weapon" used in the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre was actually a pistol.

Incident Date Fatalities Type of weapons (all)
Virginia Tech massacre 4/16/2007 33 2 semiautomatic handguns
Newtown school shooting 12/14/2012 28 2 semiautomatic handguns, 1 shotgun, 1 assault weapon
Luby's massacre 10/16/1991 24 2 semiautomatic handguns
San Ysidro McDonald's massacre 7/18/1984 22 1 semiautomatic handgun, 1 shotgun, 1 assault weapon
Columbine High School massacre 4/20/1999 15 1 shotgun, 3 assault weapons
United States Postal Service shooting 8/20/1986 15 3 semiautomatic handguns
Binghamton shootings 4/3/2009 14 2 semiautomatic handguns
Fort Hood massacre 11/5/2009 13 1 semiautomatic handgun
Aurora theater shooting 7/20/2012 12 2 semiautomatic handguns, 1 shotgun, 1 assault weapon

 

Technically every American male is in the federal reserve pool!

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-03-22/pdf/2012-7019.pdf

Again the militia was never meant to be under central control! It is the people and it is meant to defend against the government or rogue military.

 

Now we know why our Founding Fathers wisely and specifically enumerated that only a well regulated militia is what is necessary to the security of a free State, and a Tenth Amendment.

 

So you are saying what? Nothing.

 

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.
You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~

 

See? His third attempt to prove me wrong and he failed miserably. Eventually, he will realize he can't..............Im just betting that it takes him a very long time! LOL

 

I'm not familiar with your specific model of target rifle. Post a link where I can read a decent review of it and I'll give you my opinion as to whether or not it should be banned for sale. That's a promise. Post the link. I will read it consider, the specific characteristics, and post a response.

Regarding the rates of 'death' involving hand guns vs semi-auto rifles. NO SXXX SHERLOCK. BUT IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. IT NEVER HAS BEEN. As I've said over and over and over and over, the previous ban was designed to address a very specific type of gun crime, the mass shooting. Not hunting accidents, home accidents, or even the broad issue of gun crime. It was designed specifically to address the growing trend of 'MASS SHOOTING'. It was successful in doing so. The stats prove it.

Again, the previous ban and proposed ban applies not only to 'assault rifles' but also to extended capacity magazines. This point has been made clear not only here in this forum but literally all over the media. Your absolute refusal to acknowledge this makes you, like so many others on your side cowards. You have purposely and repeatedly disregarded specific facts and circumstances that threaten your shallow argument that bans don't work. They damn well do. Again, the last one saved many lives by banning the sales of specific models of 'assault weapons' AND extended capacity magazines. I've posted statistical evidence at least a half dozen times already in this forum.

Everyone involved in this debate knows that semi-auto rifles represent a small percentage of the guns currently owned by private US citizens. We know that semi-auto files have so far been used in a very small percentage of gun homicides. Again, we've already acknowledged this many times. But your claim that semi-auto rifles are only responsible for .4% of gun deaths if true at all, isn't anywhere near as relevant as the percentage of gun HOMICIDES committed with them and/or the extended capacity magazines and the BODY COUNTS they are responsible for. There is a big difference. Meanwhile, sales of 'assault rifles' and extended magazines are at record-high levels. Or they were until sometime last month when stocks all across the country finally ran low.

Mark my words: There will be a growing number of mass shootings committed with semi-auto rifles and high capacity magazines this year, the next, and probably the year after that as well. This number will grow specifically because of the recent demand and growing OBSESSION with excessive firepower. There is a direct correlation.

So why am I for hand guns and not 'assault rifles'? That's easy. It's because I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in the right of law abiding citizens to carry firearms for hunting and/or self defense. I also believe in the 'regulation'. I do wish that something would have been done decades ago to keep the numbers in check. There really are too many guns in America. This is specifically why we have one of the highest rates of gun homicide in the developed world. It's MUCH higher than Canada, France, Sweden, Germany and over a dozen other well developed countries. It's a damn shame that we didn't see these high gun homicide rates coming decades ago. However, it's much too late to even consider a total ban or mass confiscation. Any attempt to do such a thing would result in a civil war.


While we're on the more broad subject of 'gun deaths', I'll say this: In order to address that more broad issue, something must be done to A, reduce the level of FANATICISM with regard to guns in this country and B, reduce the number of guns being sold without back round checks by irresponsible retailers at gun shows and by blithering idiots out of their homes, garages, and trunks of their cars. Only then, might the police be able to take them from gang members and other criminals faster than they are transferred by those irresponsible retailers and blithering idiots. It would take years of strongly enforced regulation and the continued efforts of law enforcement to reduce the number of guns owned by irresponsible citizens and criminals thereby reducing the rates of 'gun death' in America. That's right. More regulation. Starting with mandatory registration and back round checks with every sale.

Hey. You brought it up. Next time, think ahead.

Again, you are disregarding the specific circumstances with regard to the Virginia Tech incident. Say it with me now.

THE VIRGINIA TECH ASSAULT WAS CARRIED OUT IN TWO SEPARATE ATTACKS SPACED ROUGHLY TWO HOURS APART. THIS GAVE THE ATTACKER TIME TO RE-STOCK, RE-LOAD, RE-EVALUATE, RE-GROUP, AND RE-COMMIT. THERE WERE A TOTAL OF 19 MAGAZINES USED. SOME WITH A CAPACITY OF 10 ROUNDS. SOME WITH A PREVIOUSLY BANNED CAPACITY OF 15 ROUNDS. THESE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES CONTRIBUTED TO THE RECORD HIGH BODY COUNT FOR A MASS SHOOTING IN THE UNITED STATES.

Again, it was two separate attacks. Sandy Hook remains the single most deadly one-man gun attack in US history. Lanza achieved his record high body count for a single attack using a previously banned version of the AR-15 with high capacity 30 round magazines. This particular weapon was used to shoot and kill most, if not all of the victims at Sandy Hook. Lanza killed himself with a handgun.

One point that I intend to repeat with every post from now on: I am truly disgusted by all you gun freak pigs who imply or state outright that nothing should be done about 'assault weapons' simply because they so far, represent a relatively low percentage of gun 'deaths' in this country. It's like you care more about your right to purchase a weapon of war than you do about that relatively low percentage of dead children, teachers, bystanders, cops, or ANYONE killed by one of these weapons of war that are far more lethal than necessary for hunting, home, or self defense. Well FXXX YOU GUN FREAK PIGS. I CARE MORE ABOUT THE VICTIMS. A LOT MORE.

 

I am shameless, but I thought, or at least hoped, that you would see that I tried very hard to treat you with respect, like adults are supposed to....no need to apologize. I give you credit for your beliefs, we just happen to be contrary....... no feelings to hurt here.................stj

 

DentalFloss.

First of all, your list is wrong. It doesn't include the incidents that took place in 1949 and 1966. Second, your list only includes 9 incidents total. I've been referring to the 'top 10' of all time with an occasional mention of #11 (the Aurora theater shooting). Also, your own list states clearly that I have been right all along about Columbine being the only 'mass shooting' to make the top 10 while the ban on 'assault weapons' was in effect. In fact, your list does not contradict one single word of my claim regarding the top 10 except for the fact that it does not go back as far as I did to compile my more accurate list. Which again includes the incidents from 1949 and 1966. When you take this into account, the Aurora theater shooting comes in at #11. Just like I told you before.

I also told you that 5 of the top 10 took place before the ban on 'assault weapons'. Your own list would confirm this if it included the incidents from 1949 and 1966. I told you that 1 took place when the ban was in effect. Your own list confirms this. I told you that 4 more have taken place since the ban expired. Your own list would confirm this if it was a full list of 10 and if it included the incidents from 1949 and 1966. In which case, the Aurora Co incident would have come in at #11.

I've also said repeatedly that 'several' of the top 10 mass shootings in US history have been committed just within the last 7 years using specific models of 'assault weapon' that were banned from 1994-2004. Your own list confirms this by formal recognition.

Finally, I've stated again and again and again and again that several of the top 10 most deadly mass shootings in US history have been committed just within the last 7 years using previously banned 'extended capacity' magazines. Including Sandy Hook, the single most deadly one-man gun attack in US history. Committed primarily with a previously banned version of the AR-15 and '30 round' magazines. This vital detail, you have been trying to escape, bury, or disregard in cowardly fashion with nearly every response to me. Again, the EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES RESULT IN HIGHER BODY COUNTS. THE RECENT STATISTICS PROVE IT.

Again, the 11th most deadly mass shooting in US history was also committed using several firearms including a previously banned version of the AR-15 and EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

Not that I have any other problems with your list. Like I just said, it doesn't contradict anything I've said once you complete the list. Not that I've relied on over-simplified raw data like yours. I've read the individual articles pertaining to each of the top 10 which go into much more detail. Also, like I've told your ignorant axxes AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, the now expired ban on 'assault weapons' applied not only to specific firearm models but also EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES. THIS IS KEY. SO STOP LEAVING THAT VITAL DETAIL OUT YOU FXXXXXX COWARD. ACKNOWLEDGE IT FROM NOW ON OR I WILL CONTINUE TO THROW IT IN YOUR FACE EVERY TIME YOU FAIL TO DO SO.

By the way, the only appropriate definition of an 'assault weapon' is by function. A semiautomatic pistol is a weapon designed for home or self-defense but there are NO statistics anywhere to indicate that more than 10 rounds are necessary for that home or self-defense. Therefore, when the extended capacity magazine is used, that semiautomatic pistol becomes by function, an 'assault weapon'. Hence the now expired ban on the sales of extended capacity magazines.

I am truly disgusted by those of you who imply or state outright that nothing should be done about 'assault weapons' simply because they represent a relatively low percentage of gun 'deaths' in this country. It's like you care more about your right to purchase a weapon of war than you do about that relatively low percentage of dead children, teachers, bystanders, cops, or ANYONE killed by one of these weapons of war that are far more lethal than necessary for hunting, home, or self defense. Well FXXX YOU GUN FREAK PIGS. I CARE MORE ABOUT THE VICTIMS. A LOT MORE.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, your list is wrong. It doesn't include the incidents that took place in 1949 and 1966. Second, your list only includes 9 incidents total. I've been referring to the 'top 10' of all time with an occasional mention of #11 (the Aurora theater shooting). Also, your own list states clearly that I have been right all along about Columbine being the only 'mass shooting' to make the top 10 while the ban on 'assault weapons' was in effect. In fact, your list does not contradict one single word of my claim regarding the top 10 except for the fact that it does not go back as far as I did to compile my more accurate list. Which again includes the incidents from 1949 and 1966. When you take this into account, the Aurora theater shooting comes in at #11. Just like I told you before.

I also told you that 5 of the top 10 took place before the ban on 'assault weapons'. Your own list would confirm this if it included the incidents from 1949 and 1966. I told you that 1 took place when the ban was in effect. Your own list confirms this. I told you that 4 more have taken place since the ban expired. Your own list would confirm this if it was a full list of 10 and if it included the incidents from 1949 and 1966. In which case, the Aurora Co incident would have come in at #11.

I've also said repeatedly that 'several' of the top 10 mass shootings in US history have been committed just within the last 7 years using specific models of 'assault weapon' that were banned from 1994-2004. Your own list confirms this by formal recognition.

Finally, I've stated again and again and again and again that several of the top 10 most deadly mass shootings in US history have been committed just within the last 7 years using previously banned 'extended capacity' magazines. Including Sandy Hook, the single most deadly one-man gun attack in US history. Committed primarily with a previously banned version of the AR-15 and '30 round' magazines. This vital detail, you have been trying to escape, bury, or disregard in cowardly fashion with nearly every response to me. Again, the EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES RESULT IN HIGHER BODY COUNTS. THE RECENT STATISTICS PROVE IT.

Again, the 11th most deadly mass shooting in US history was also committed using several firearms including a previously banned version of the AR-15 and EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

Not that I have any other problems with your list. Like I just said, it doesn't contradict anything I've said once you complete the list. Not that I've relied on over-simplified raw data like yours. I've read the individual articles pertaining to each of the top 10 which go into much more detail. Also, like I've told your ignorant axxes AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, the now expired ban on 'assault weapons' applied not only to specific firearm models but also EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES. THIS IS KEY. SO STOP LEAVING THAT VITAL DETAIL OUT YOU FXXXXXX COWARD. ACKNOWLEDGE IT FROM NOW ON OR I WILL CONTINUE TO THROW IT IN YOUR FACE EVERY TIME YOU FAIL TO DO SO.

By the way, the only appropriate definition of an 'assault weapon' is by function. A semiautomatic pistol is a weapon designed for home or self-defense but there are NO statistics anywhere to indicate that more than 10 rounds are necessary for that home or self-defense. Therefore, when the extended capacity magazine is used, that semiautomatic pistol becomes by function, an 'assault weapon'. Hence the now expired ban on the sales of extended capacity magazines.

I am truly disgusted by those of you who imply or state outright that nothing should be done about 'assault weapons' simply because they represent a relatively low percentage of gun 'deaths' in this country. It's like you care more about your right to purchase a weapon of war than you do about that relatively low percentage of dead children, teachers, bystanders, cops, or ANYONE killed by one of these weapons of war that are far more lethal than necessary for hunting, home, or self defense. Well FXXX YOU GUN FREAK PIGS. I CARE MORE ABOUT THE VICTIMS. A LOT MORE.

 

What no link? Your inability to back up what you say speaks for itself...

 

Wakeupamerica90.

Some of the incidents you refer to are irrelevant because they took place long ago in countries that are nothing like America is today. Others are irrelevant because the measures of 'gun control' were far more extreme than ANYTHING proposed by our President, Vice President, or ANY member of Congress.

Again, THERE IS NO PROPOSAL TO DISARM AMERICA. THE ONLY PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE ARE WITH REGARD TO SPECIFIC MODELS AND EXTENDED CAPACITY MAGAZINES WHICH REPRESENT A LEVEL OF FIREPOWER FAR IN EXCESS OF THAT WHICH IS NECESSARY FOR HUNTING, HOME, OR SELF DEFENSE.

Tell you what: I'll take your position seriously if you can explain to us how it is that our rich and powerful elected officials may get bored with business as usual, turn against the masses with deadly force and inevitably turn America, their golden goose, into a waste land of ruins, bodies, disease and martial law. I challenge you to produce a motive. One they could agree on. After all, Feinstein can't do it alone. Neither can Obama. Neither can the entire Democratic party. Please tell me what super-natural force you expect to rid our nation of partisanship and gridlock, unite those in authority with our military and effectively compel them to destroy America by force.

Then, maybe I'll share your paranoia. In the meantime, I'll sleep tight knowing that my own two semiautomatic pistols for self defense are not going to be taken by anyone for any reason.

Another thing: There is one HUGE difference between the US and Switzerland with regard to guns: We are OBSESSED with them. In fact, we have the most armed populous in world history. Switzerland has a much more responsible culture when it comes to guns. That is why they have arguably the lowest crime rate in the world, which by the way is often confused with the lowest rate of homicide. I'd have to check on that but I do know that Japan has the lowest rate of gun homicide anywhere in the world. They also have the most strict measures of gun control anywhere in the world. We have the most loose gun regulations anywhere in the world. We also have one of the highest rates of gun homicide anywhere in the developed world. Far in excess of Japan, Switzerland, Germany, France, Canada, and over a dozen more well developed countries.

In other words, our obsessive gun culture is a real problem.

A message for the die-hard gun freaks: I am truly disgusted by those of you who imply or state outright that nothing should be done about 'assault weapons' simply because they represent a relatively low percentage of gun 'deaths' in this country. It's like you care more about your right to purchase a weapon of war than you do about that relatively low percentage of dead children, teachers, bystanders, cops, or ANYONE killed by one of these weapons of war that are far more lethal than necessary for hunting, home, or self defense. Well FXXX YOU GUN FREAK PIGS. I CARE MORE ABOUT THE VICTIMS. A LOT MORE.

 

If your goal is to cut homicide, banning something responsible for a very small number of homicides seems a foolish course of action to take.

That said, I'm done with you. You want my gun, come and get it.