NJ wants to punish people for changing from gay to heterosexual

Put words in people's mouths often Flintc?

Good points about the black thing vs gay on suicide rates tex!

At first glance that looks like a stretch. Then I thought about it and it makes sense. When people are sitting on Grand Canyons of repressed toxic memories, they use a great deal of denial to keep the vault doors shut tight. When even a hint of a crack in that door show itself, the reaction is hugely disproportionate to the encroachment. A mere reasonable question like "why do lipstick lesbians seek out mannish looking, acting, talking, walking "female" partners?" This is met by something akin to a grand mal siezure of defensiveness and diversionary vitrole. So yeah, I can see why Freud labelled that "paranoia"...because it is, in a way: extreme paranoia that the vault door will suddenly burst and all that overwhelming toxic sludge be intolerable to take in one dose.

So, I feel for gays. But the solution is not to change the entire fabric of society to accomodate this paranoia. The solution is to do a professional intervention on the APA and get these suffering people the help they need and will never get under the Rainbow-APA that now reigns..

 

Yes, they look like they are about to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge at any moment now.

 

Wow. Your true feelings exposed.

When you want to legislate around theories absolutely. If you want to stand on a street corner with a sign have at it.

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That's right Walter. One second in their lives negates years of backed up factual data. Keep telling yourself that.

Walter logic: Looks like a decent guy

 

Hey, I'm just agreeing for a change.

Yep, no doubt about it. We can feel the hatred from here.

And of course, since sexual orientation is persistent, the best help we can give them is euthanasia. This isn't a final solution, alas, because the same percentage of these sickos will be born to heterosexual couples in the future as it always has been in the past. So it must be an ongoing policy.

Hey, I suggest a new national puberty ritual. Let their sex drive kick in, see which way it works, and THEN kill them. Maybe have a national "kill the queers" day, say every July 4.

 

Or perhaps folks get suicidal because people like you find them icky and tell them that they are disgusting and should never be given the same rights and freedoms given to you.

Naaaaah, I'm sure that has NOTHING to do with it.


Tex logic: Gay people getting married is stripping me of my freedoms.

 

No. DDT is banned so that it does not enter the food chain and drive assorted species extinct.

 

Why would a boy want to do something he finds repugnant? Conversion therapy is quackery. That simple.

 

Did it ever cross your mind why people go to therapists? Most believe they have a problem. Some do it to improve themselves. How many other go to one if they have no problems.

Oh, did you asked him whether the others were looking for a cure for their homosexuality.

 

If you have ever studied statistics you would understand what the fallacy of your argument is.

It is confusing coorelation with causality.

This one study that you cite notes a coorelation- not a causality.

For example- if 60% of speeding cars are red- does that mean that being red causes the cars to speed?

And I never claimed that those children who were raped were raped because it was their fault- I was postulating another unproven theory- that they just might have been more tempting targets. I am not trying to blame the children at all- no matter why they were molested, it is the molesters fault.

Corelation might indicated causality- or it might not. Assuming it does though is just bad statistics.

 

Since you missed the obvious answer to this I gave already allow me to embarrass you yet again.

Blacks have had 1000 times the amount of discrimination and ridicule than gays ever had yet their suicide rates aren't anywhere near to homosexuals.

Game. Set. Match.

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Then explain the suicide rate being so high bomac. You didn't have to go to therapy to figure that one out.

 

Im fully aware of spurious correlation. Once you get correlation you have to rule out spurious correlation though analysis. Given the best you can come up with is your inane analysis of the boys were gay and asked to be raped we can safely assume that the correlation is not spurious.

 

Uh..what? Where did I say that homosexuals didn't suffer from depression or suicidal tendencies?

I can't say for certain, but thinking on it I would say that the persecution that Gay people receive is different then the persecution of black people (notwithstanding the fact that being Black has become generally socially acceptable, whereas being Gay hasn't gotten there yet)
I think with the Black Community, they have fostered such a community around themselves, that is at at point in our history that it is stereotypically emulated by a great many of the masses. The idea that it's 'cool' to be black.

Whereas the Gay Community will never quite reach that level of cultural acceptance because Gay Culture doesn't have any stereotypical characteristics that would be emulated by those same masses. (Baggy clothes and Hip Hop vrs rainbows, sparkles and trance music).

Thus, this breeds a sense of isolation in a great many gay people that lends to higher rates of suicide.

It was a subjective assertion that required my having the same ideas of "American Values" that he presented. You can't claim an opinion on a subjective statement is false with factual backing.

 

You made this statement: "The APA says that Reparative therapy can lead to depression and suicide. "

I countered that with the suicide rate of homosexuals which is far far higher.

Are you kidding? Homosexuals are far disproportionally represented on tv right now and never in a negative light so there there goes that theory.

And where is your evidence these different forms of persecution mean blacks have a lower suicidal rate because of it?

You can go back decades well before your theory of "its cool to be black" and blacks had FAR more persecution than anything homosexuals have gone through and the suicide rate was nowhere near it is with homosexuals. How do you explain that?

 

What? Correlations at best suggest possible links, usually complex and indirect. PURE coincidence is rare, but direct cause->effect is also rare. And so we dig (hopefully in appropriate detail) into the underlying constellation of patterns. To do this, we must identify ALL relevant parameters. This can be very difficult.

One difficulty is establishing a baseline. Before we can even approach the question of childhood abuse, we must establish the fact of abuse. And to do that, we must DEFINE abuse. And that definition isn't straightforward in practice, even if we FORCE it to be straightforward for other purposes. Let's say I'm a 14-year-old boy, and an 18-year-old girl is making sexual advances on me. Is this "abuse"? Legally, yes it is. Do I feel abused? Are you kidding? I feel like the luckiest boy in the world! So am I REALLY being abused?

 

I don't believe they said they wanted to ban the practice; they just said the lack of medical endorsement of the practice meant they weren't going to pay any money to support it. Presumably if individuals want to pay all the cash involved for such therapy, they can do so.

 

Not really a response to my comments. Game. Set. Match.

But anyway, Could it be our societal culture which bullies gays and tell them they are bad people. I don't do that but I am sure that you did especially in high school.

Of course you only bullied the feminine guys and "butch" girls. Not that all of them were gay. But you didn't care. You probably showered with others who were gays. You still have your stereotypes of what you think it means to be gay but it does not keep you away from all gays. I hope that creeps you out. They could be anywhere.

 

Well, kind of. The conversion therapy is now in the category of lobotomies - a failed notion based on false assumptions, that not only doesn't work but often does serious permanent harm to its victims. Even if we grant that the people who believe in the impossible have their hearts in the right place, their brains haven't yet registered the reality - they are doing only damage, despite all good intentions.

So we can basically ignore claims of efficacy, known to be bogus, which shifts our focus to an entirely different set of issues. Should we have the State endorse a known useless and harmful procedure? Should there be a legal difference between adults submitting themselves to quackery, and adults shoving their children through quackery? Should the state make quack treatments illegal, on the grounds that they do harm and never deliver on their promises, or should the state allow quack treatments provided they accurately identify and advise victims that these "treatments" are both harmful and useless?

My personal politics are that this quackery should be prominently labeled, its total failure should be advised to every potential victim, but that it should be legal for anyone stupid or deluded enough to do it anyway. But children can't be forced into it, and there should be some reasonable age limit before one is old enough to jump off the diving board and hope someone puts water in the pool before they come down.

 

As a black person I can tell you that never once did my parents plead with me not to "be" black. Never once did they nor any of my relatives ever suggest I should visit a therapist to try to change my race. I'm unaware of any of my black relatives ever being thrown out on the streets by their parents for being black, being shunned by their community, or spending years hiding the colour of their skin for fear of their parents discovering that they weren't white.

 

LOL No black person would ever pretend their people's plight was less than homosexuals. Did homosexuals have to drink from different water fountains? Were they denied access to eating establishments? Were they forced to sit in the back of the bus? Were they considered 1/3 a person by the government? Were they denied the right to vote? WERE THEY SLAVES FOR 260 YEARS? Give me a break.

 

No, I won't give you a break because your missing the point completely. It's your comparison, in this context, that's asinine, not mine. My point is that gay kids often have NO support not even from their own families, the people who are supposed to love them regardless, that's why their suicide rates are higher, not because both groups don't suffer discrimination or that the discrimination they suffer is equal in any way.

 

Where are you getting this incredible BS from? You have freakish parents allowing cross dressing of their children even SURGERIES before they even hit puberty.

Get this through your head. Homosexuality is not natural. It has never been proven natural or genetic. Of course children who claim they are gay are going to be met with confusion but you aren't living in this century if you think gays are being persecuted the way blacks have been.

 

Im sort of blown away that my fellow conservatives here are even discussing what role the state SHOULD play instead of asking "WHY THE (*)(*)(*)(*), IS THE STATE MAKING POLICY ABOUT TREATING GAY PEOPLE OR NOT?"

 

I am responding to a specific comparison you made regarding a differential between suicide rates for gay people and people of colour despite the fact that both have undoubtedly been subject to unwarranted discrimination. I made nor responded to any allusions regarding cross dressing or surgeries which are an entirely separate discussion.

Nope, I don't respond to bossy people.

It is according to every accredited medical/social science authority in the western world.

Neither has left-handedness but we don't assert that kids are "pretending" to be left handed.

Well since that exactly isn't the point I'm trying to make it's no wonder you're not getting it.

I'm sure anybody who's capable of getting it has probably done so by now.

 

There is no double standard. Gender Identity Disorder is a real psychological disorder with only one known treatment and the camp is intended to help those suffering from it; ex-gay therapy on the other hand simply does not work and is known to be damaging to those who attempt it. Also, the OP is incredibly dishonest and I've reported it as such.

 

Lets see ANY evidence the treatment is effective. John Hopkins discontinued their gender reassignment clinic because they couldnt find any evidence that the treatment was in any way effective.