Two Problems with the NSA Snooping

I have listened to the arguments on the latest revelations about the NSA snooping on us.

(1) I have heard folk say that '100% of the violations revealed this week were accidental and were not abuse'....Lets look at that claim. A week ago the claim was that there was no such accidental invasions of privacy at all. A year ago we had the head of the NSA deny to Congress that the programs we are discussing today even existed. For all we know there are daily abuses happening and the details have not leaked out yet.

(2) There seems to be an acceptance that the entire NSA monitoring everything through rubber stamp FISA warrants is normal, legal, and standard operating procedure. I disagree. It is unconstitutional and guts the 4th amendment. Both parties are complicit in defending this abuse

Which brings me to the first point again. The claim that there has been no abuse seems to ignore the idea that the snooping is abuse all by itself. The government has no authority for this mess.

 

I'm not a big fan of the lack of warrants / bs warrants .

 

It's mass warrants covering millions. No, the FEDS are simply breaking the law and getting away with it.

Meanwhile....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...r&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=Share Buttons

The thugs running the illegal searches are abusing the folk reporting it

 

The worst thing is that you americans aren't content with simply monitoring what you do, but also have extensive spying programs on europeans also.

 

Spying on foreigners is what they are paid for. Spying on us is illegal, except in Washington.

 

Legal, but strongly disliked. Aren't we supposed to be allies?

 

An ally is one who supports one. Europe is one who 'conditionally' supports, as long as it is not too inconvenient. Not many actual allies anymore...just neutrals

 

While I think the NSA stuff is pretty rotten, I'd like to point out that Greenwald's partner was detained at Heathrow Airport in London by UK authorities, not the American feds. Again, in no way am I defending the NSA, just clarifying.

 

The revelations also included stuff about the UK's programs

 

Oh, I know. I was just, as I said, clarifying for pedantry's sake.

 

[video=youtube;ZAvFMuZPwWA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAvFMuZPwWA[/video]

 

they have never been illegal per say, but any information collected or discovered from the poisoned well without a warrant was never allowed in court

 

Yeah might not be allowed in court but still a violation of our privacy . They " find crime" by invading our privacy , with out a warrant . Scary stuff really with no way to prove any effectiveness .

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Yeah might not be allowed in court but still a violation of our privacy . They " find crime" by invading our privacy , with out a warrant . Scary stuff really with no way to prove any effectiveness .

 

With hundreds of thousands of laws and regulations on the books I figure 100% of us are guilty of something if the authorities looked hard enough. This makes that looking vastly easier.

 

I agree with this. The laws of the land are so vast, that everyone is constantly guilty of something. Those who don't rock the boat are paid no mind, while those who do, have obscure laws enforced upon. This epidemic has been going on for a long time, the NSA program just makes the process that much more efficient. But in the end, just another of 1000s of things wrong. What blows my mind is the fact every inch of our society has been tainted at this point via the current system, yet some still seem to think they'll be able to change anything within the confines of said corrupt system. The true heart of the problem: Americans laziness and constantly searching for an easy, quick fix. A horrible way to live on an individual scale, disastrous as a nation.

 

but if anything is "found" out without a warrant, it can't be used in court, thus you can never be charged because "any information collected or discovered from the poisoned well without a warrant was never allowed in court"

 

don't disagree with you there, I am guessing wont be long before every small town has a 15 mph zone with a speed camera to gain income for their town

 

That's kind of the problem and its why we have laws of procedure . Or had .

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But it can give them a starting ground that they should never have had . And whether or not it can be used as evidence doesn't clear it up from being a mass intrusion on our privacy .

 

that is considered dipping from the poisoned well, nothing addl can be used in court either if they were led down that path by information collected without a warrant

course if they withhold that from the defense, it would be hard to prove

.

 

You do not understand my argument. If they snoop and decide you are to be persecuted, they will discover some other charge to get one on....Remember, everything is illegal.

 

It depends on how you define ‘allies’. Is it

a) Lapdogs who do exactly what you say without thinking about their own interests, or
b) Nations who join for mutual benefits due to common goals and ideals.

 

Yes , and with reported violations it begs the question ... But even if you never saw a day in court they are accessing private information they never had the right to do.

 

Exactly, according to news articles, the DEA has been doing this with NSA information.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rds-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

 

An ally is someone that does not need to have its arm twisted AND can provide support commensurate with its size and economic power...

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I would bet the DEA is not the only agency getting data illegally mined.

 

I agree with you, I think one thing they could do it for every device with microphone or camera on them to light up a led when they are on

is selling point to make, would you want the phone that did not tell you this critical piece of information?

it's not just the gov you have to fear invading your privacy, it's employers, hackers, and marketers

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