Ukraine..why is any of our business?

it's a lie

 

OH PLEASE!!!

There are only about a THOUSAND other sources that confirm it and some of this information is even available from Russian sites.

AboveAlpha

 

All of you are thinking too much in terms of international relations and not enough in terms of people relations. You say "why should we, the US, get involved" or "Russia to invade Ukraine", etc, but the fact of the matter is all these relations have nothing to do with what is best for the people living in these nations. You are not your government.

Instead, think more about the people of Ukraine. There was a rebellion in Kiev, thats for certain, where people specifically stated that they do not wanted to go hand in hand with Russia anymore and wanted a more western direction. The rebellion was, I thinks, as much a rebellion as one could get. Meaning I have a few ukrainian aquaintances with whom I've spoken about this which in my mind give the rebellion a sense of authenticity. This does not mean however that the US or EU did not get involved to finance this thing. But that I think that happened in all genuine rebellions. I can't prove it but I think that even your "Independence War" was probably financed by France or other powers which opposed Britain at the time.

Having said this, I think that no state/government/group of people have the right to intervene in what another group of people decide as long as it is a domestic decision.

Putin's decision to send troops to Crimea is wrong. It's just intimidation. It's been done before by Russia. Putin wants to keep his dominion in Ukraine. That's understandable only in the framework where you think that in the world there are only states with geo strategic decisions which don't involve people.

Of course, there is also the undeniable reality in which there are these state structures in which a group of people play on the world stage and it seems that the decisions that they make are somehow justifed. I think it's necessary for people to stop obeying the state structures more and more. Especially in countries with a big enough economy that can provide a big enough army that you can affect others around you.

To the US users who posted here : you were just lucky enough to be born in a country which is big enough that no external threat can harm it. But that doesn't mean that you should not be empathetic to the situation of others (that doesn't mean that you should intervene though).

To the Russia users who posted here : it's your responsibility and yours alone to oppose the thug government of Putin. You wouldn't like it if others did that to you.

 

The problem here is that the Ukrainian People have been being subverted and abused by the Russian's and then Soviet's and then back to Russian's for HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

The Russian's point out that there exists over 50% of Ukrainian's who speak Russian but they never bring up the fact that Russia has been systematically forcing laws down the throats of the Ukrainian's such as some of the one's I posted about where Russian's created laws banning the use of the Ukrainian Language and the printing of books in that language back in the 1800's and slowly but surely forced the people to speak Russian rather than their own language out of necessity.

Now...the problem is that the Ukraine is far too close to Russia both geographically as well as culturally for the United States to do much and since it would only make things worse in the Ukraine for the U.S. to place economic pressure upon Russia...Ukrainian's are basically screwed....but then again...so is Russia and Putin as any Brutal action against the Ukraine will just drive away the much needed Western Nation investments in Russia.

Unfortunately I don't see any possibility of improvements in relations between the United States and Russia until Putin is DEAD...DEAD.....DEAD!!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Oh....and I just wanted you to know that YES....the French helped us during the Revolutionary war because they did what the French have always done for a Thousand Years....fight the English!!

But....the creation of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights is without a doubt THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT DOCUMENT EVER WRITTEN IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

Nothing like it had ever been written before and nothing like it has ever been written in a better form since.

It is a Constitution that declares that our Government is of the people...by the people and for the people and it even has provisions within our Constitution that in any case where a Government of the United States becomes twisted and no longer serves the people and does not abide by the Constitution and Bill of Rights then it is the DUTY....not right or legal declaration....but THE DUTY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO REMOVE ANY GOVERNMENT THAT NO LONGER SERVES THE PEOPLE.

The Men who wrote the U.S, Constitution and Thomas Jefferson was it's architect....devised a system of Government that is a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC....thus although the Democracy of Voting will elect the Leadership the Majority cannot inhibit or harm the RIGHTS OF THE MINORITY which are protected under the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Russia....and Putin do not understand this concept where they believe that the MAJORITY DICTATES THEIR WILL UPON THE MINORITY and they call that Democracy and Freedom.

The U.S. Constitution written by very intelligent men over 200 years ago takes into account the RIGHTS OF THE MINORITY.

An example where some countries just don't get it....FRANCE....a country that never wastes a moment criticizing the United States....passed a few absolutely ridiculous laws...laws that would NEVER be allowed to exist in the U.S. as they would be deemed....UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

France passed one law making it illegal for Muslim Women to wear a Veil in public!!! THINK ABOUT THAT!!!

France as a Nation made a law saying a woman could not wear a specific kind of clothing....even though wearing a veil is specific to those peoples religious practices....WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN THE U.S.

France also passed a law stating that the American English word known as E-mail....could no longer be used in any French Governmental Office and France spent huge amounts of money getting all their Governmental Software not to have the word E-mail within the Windows programming.

The REASON France did this?

The French Cultural Ministry stated that a large number of American English words and Terms were infiltrating the French Language, Culture and Youth and that there already existed a High Percentage of French Youths who the Cultural Ministry stated were showing signs of Americanism or Indoctrination into the American Way of Life.

Imagine that!

AboveAlpha

 

from odessa:

 

Putin is a nasty piece of work and he want's payback and Blood as he was embarrassed this happened during the Olympics.

If I was Ukrainian....I would be doing my best to get the hell out of the Military Zones.

Putin is PETTY...and he holds a GRUDGE.

AboveAlpha

 

Putin has been doing it in Syria for the last three years.
Putin is doing it to Ukraine BECAUSE YOU DO NOT EXIST.

 

Better this photo from the people gave the Coup... the USA and EU friends:

From Kiev Rada (Parlament):




The Rodina crushed the Nazis in Ukraine, the Polish, the Swedes .. and I hope that now defeat the Ukrainian nationalist beast...(anti-Semitic, nazi and totalitarian).

 

The Ukraine is a hell of a lot different than Syria.

First the Russian's hundreds of years ago...then the Soviets...then back to Russian's have basically been systematically stealing a Nation away from it's own people and the Ukraine has a large minority number of Russian's living there.

Because of this there is no chance we will get involved.

In Syria...Putin cut a deal that we allowed Putin and Russia to send it's ship and that ship off loaded the Russian Missile System that it sold to Syria...then the moment Russia was paid ALL RUSSIAN MILITARY ADVISERS AND PERSONAL IN SYRIA GOT ON THAT RUSSIAN SHIP IN THE MED AND LEFT!!!!

Right now the Assad regime is allowed to exist as long as it continues to keep giving us it's Chemical Weapons.

We know EXACTLY how much Chemical Weapon's Assad posses.

The moment Assad refuses to give up any more...we will remove Assad from power.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes an ally we have a treay with them signed in 1994 by Clinton. He involved us like it or not

 

you wrote-Approximately 9% of population spoke Russian at the time of the Russian Census of 1897.
correct but it's average.
it's strongly depend on city and region, for instance
According to the census of 1897, Kharkov -89,1% of Russians: 109 914 persons (63,17%) velikoRussians, 45 092 (25,92%) littleRussians (Bagaley DI, Miller D.P. History of Kharkov city for 250 years of its existence. 2 TF - Kharkov, 1912.)
velikoRussian= current Russian
original-
По переписи 1897 г. Харьков - 89,1% составляли русские: 109 914 чел (63,17%) великороссы, 45 092 (25,92%) малороссы [29, с.13]. (Багалей Д.И., Миллер Д.П. История города Харькова за 250 лет его существования. В 2-х тт.- Харьков, 1912.)

 

Because the USA is in fact an Imperialist Power ,and if they do not respond then the European Imperialist Powers ,German Imperialism in Particular,will have a whole Market .Always remember we live under Capitalism .A Syatem ,Of Wars ,fascism and Imperialist Plunder.ain't nothing nice about it.

 

US Imperialism ,can not sit idly by and see German Imperialism ,take the prize of the Ukraine .The Competition for Spheres of influence ,is never ending ,and must express itself in War!
The only way for a peaceful resolution is the Reconstitution of the USSR as part of the United Socialist States of Europe .

 

Russia ,is not an Imperialist Nation ,the Tsar Nicholas 2 and his Family ,well were Terminated thus stopping Russia's ancient Imperialist nature .

As far as the Ukraine having "independence ", ok Had a lot of Independence NOT ,when German Imperialism Occupied it in WW1 and WW2 ,that Independence under Imperialism ,cost an estimated 20-30 million dead.
When under the Independence ,established by German Imperialism ,the whole Nation became a Extermination camp It wasn't only Jews that Hitler wanted to "Cleanse " also the Slavic People's were seen as "Sub-human ".

The only way that the Ukraine can become "Independent ",is through Workers Revolution .and reincorporation with Russia .To form the basis of the USSR!

Under the proposals of Kerry and Co ,nothing But Civil War follows !

You ready for that ? Could see Nuclear weapons come out ,mushroom clouds over Europe .Is that what we want ? I say ,NO ,there is an alternative ,the Unification of the International Working Class ,to fight capitalism ,the economic system that brings this crisis,so that the Top 1% can keep all the Wealth!

 

strangely I find myself somewhat agreeing with you...economics/greed is a serious problem but the Ukrainians should've been left alone to work out their internal economic problems...Putin has escalated the situation with a blatant imperialistic grab for territory...even without the tzars this is aggressive imperialism...

 

and that's life in Quebec, a constant attack on the use of english, it's childish but it's their province and they do as they like, english speaking Quebeckers who don't like it a free to move to english speaking canada...it's petty and stupid but canadians english or french speaking aren't going to start a civil war over it.... and our english speaking American neighbours aren't about to invade quebec to rescue those unfortunate anglophones from the despised french language laws....

 

You've got to start using smiles when you joke otherwise, sometimes, I can't tell.


Well, the USA did the same thing to the Native Americans... Almost everyone has done this to someone else, at some point in time. I'm not interested what happened in the late 19th century... It's too long ago to matter. It's out of living memory.

But 1980s is recent. That's a point to you. Still that's 30 years ago.

I'd prefer to just think about Russia and Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union... 1990s or later. Ukraine already had its revolution in 2004... they HAVE their own country. They tried the politics of the Orange revolution ... they got power-mad YUSHCHENKO and went back again because he was trash.

This current riot in Ukraine, from my point of view, is about western influences trying to incite revolution, again, to get a friendly puppet government.

But, I think Putin is right to send military into Ukraine because this riot isn't in the best interests of Ukraine. The pro-EU side fights against the Ukrainian people's prosperity because the IMF has special austerity penalties in store for them, it will be a disaster just like the first time of the Orange revolution. Just like we have seen in Greece recently.

 

and what is USA going to do? Nothing!

Russia + Syria are advancing on battlefield. Defeating terrorists and neo-nazi's.

Where is your army? They wouldn't dare fire a shot at the Russian.

Situation in Syria getting better daily. Your beloved terrorists getting smashed daily. Morale here in Damascus is highest it's been in 3 years.

 

Surely you don't believe that Russia could win a war vs NATO. Are you that Naive?

America is in no position to fight another long war, economically. Militarily we are the 1# world super power and could easily disarm Russia and Syria if the UN would take restrictions of the weaponry we were allowed to use, still excluding chemical and nuclear weapons.

 

[video=youtube;WULsZJxPfws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WULsZJxPfws[/video]

 

very, very naive apparently....

 

I doubt that the US will be able to apply much economic pressure to Russia, since that could really not be achieved unilaterally. And it is doubtful that all the European nations (who are dependent upon Russian oil), as well as Asia, Australia, Canada--in fact, the entire world--would simply go along with this plan.

But if it did, I am not certain why that might make things worse for the Ukrainian people...

 

Sure, eat this propaganda. The fact is, a very small fraction of the chemicals were delivered, while Assad continues to butcher.
Don't you see this is a fig leaf to hide the shame of the west ?
Let us face the truth, we do not really care what happens in other countries.
We will not risk our man to stop the murder.
this was true in Rwanda, where the UN troups just left the people to be exterminated with knifes while the UN troupes had machine guns.
This is true in Syria.

 

Here is the latest on the crisis in Ukraine, from Reuters:

Here is the link: Russia gives Ukrainian forces in Crimea ultimatum to surrender - Interfax | Reuters