Russia Has Proof Jet Shot Down Airliner

Seems there are a lot of questions and a lot of answers being provided by Russia about the airliner, and that it was not shot down by a Buk, but rather by an air to air missile...most likely by the jet following it.


...The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine suggests a shape charge from an air-to-air missile - and not a Buk; that's consistent with the Russian Ministry of Defense presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian SU-25 shadowing MH17. Increasingly, the Buk scenario - hysterically peddled by (Washington) - is being discarded. Not to mention, again, that not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used....

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-230714.html

 

lie
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what a bull(*)(*)(*)(*) article.

the only ones they haven't blaimed are the Illuminati and NWO.

 

BBC report deleted on Ukrainian planes near MH17.

Link (with video):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/delete...t-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631

 

huh, you guys weren't so offhand when West tabloid media blamed Putin, were you?

 

The proofs will be in the pictures, and I don't mean the Kiev doctored ones on the social networks.

 

From the Russian evidence dump:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The plane began to steadily lose speed at 17.20 and disappeared from radar screens at 17.23,' alleged Kartapolov. 'The plane followed the established air corridor until Donetsk and then veered off its course to the north.'

He said the plane, which at one point was as much as 14 kilometres off course, attempted to return to the air corridor but crashed before completing the manoeuvre.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The above fits in with the plane being disabled, but still flying. Now, if that's the case, for whatever reason the veer occurred, there should be something on the flight recorders confirming this.

 

The truth may help.


What are the politics of the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17?

24 July 2014

A US State Department press briefing Monday by spokeswoman Marie Harf on the crash of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine made clear that the US government and media have no credible evidence to support their allegations of Russian involvement in this horrible tragedy. Repeatedly challenged to substantiate such charges by Associated Press (AP) reporter Matt Lee, Harf could not present any concrete information whatsoever.

Lee first cited the Russian army’s presentation of radar data and satellite images showing the Kiev regime’s warplanes and missile batteries tracking MH17 shortly before the crash. He then asked her to respond to Moscow’s request that Washington publish documentation to substantiate its version of events, such as data from a US spy satellite that Moscow observed in the area at the time of the crash.

Harf’s reply was simply vacuous. She said, “We know, we saw in social media afterwards, we saw videos, we saw photos of the pro-Russian separatists bragging about shooting down an aircraft that then they then…excuse me, took down once it became clear that it may have been a passenger airline.”

Lee asked Harf whether Washington would release any hard evidence like the data provided by the Russian army. Harf refused to even address the issue, simply claiming that she had not bothered to watch the Russian army’s presentation. “I haven’t seen any of that,” she said.

Lee pressed Harf on how Washington in fact knows that the missile was fired from territory held by the pro-Russian forces. Harf replied, “We do know first that Russian-backed separatists were in possession of an SA-11 [surface-to-air missile] system as early as Monday, July 14. This is from intercepts of separatist communications posted on YouTube by the Ukrainian government.”

Lee interrupted Harf to ask whether Washington could release any evidence for its claims besides social media postings. Harf’s reply made clear it could not: “If there’s more information that that’s based on that we can share, we’re happy to do so. We’ll continue looking at that. But look, this is what we know as of right now. Based on open information which is basically common sense, right, we know where it was fired from, we know who has this weapon.” She added, “I know it’s frustrating. Believe me, we try to get as much out there as possible. And for some reason, sometimes we can’t.”

It is astounding that the US government would expect anyone to accept such nonsense as evidence of anything. US intelligence agencies collectively spend hundreds of billions of dollars yearly on massive surveillance operations; they apparently were monitoring the area of the crash via satellite. The only evidence Harf cited, however, was an obscure audio recording of a conversation between two unknown operatives posted to YouTube by the Ukrainian Security Service, which is controlled by the CIA.

Its contents prove nothing. Ukrainian forces also have SA-11 missile systems and could have fired them at MH17. One missile launcher, serial number 312, that media initially charged had launched a missile at MH17 proved to be part of the Ukrainian army’s arsenal.

This is a modus operandi US imperialism has used for years: relying on unverified claims about terrifying subjects like weapons of mass destruction or plane crashes to railroad the American people into war, with terrible consequences. US Secretary of State Colin Powell’s 2003 presentation at the UN, claiming that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, proved to be a pack of lies. Last year’s claims that Syria had used chemical weapons, utilized to press for a war, were exposed by journalist Seymour Hersh as a fabrication by Turkey, Al Qaeda and factions of the American state.

Significantly, President Obama and US Secretary of State John Kerry have raised questions about the current crisis with Russia, with Obama warning of “misinformation” in the media and Kerry stressing that he did not want to address the issue of Russian “culpability” for the disaster.

Nonetheless, the Western media campaign against Russia continues unabated. Writing Wednesday in the New York Times, Bernard-Henri Lévy rabidly denounced Putin, blaming him for the crash. Lévy wrote: “He has taken thugs, thieves, rapists, ex-cons and vandals and turned them into a paramilitary force… To this motley collection Mr. Putin, the Russian president, gave a terrifying arsenal with which the amateur soldiers were unfamiliar and with which they have been playing, like kids with fireworks.”

Such vitriolic denunciations of Putin and Russia are calls for a NATO intervention in Ukraine that directly risks escalating the civil war provoked by the NATO-backed, fascist-led putsch last February into a global nuclear war. In a filthy article in the New York Times, columnist Roger Cohen argued for ignoring the results of the investigation of the MH17 crash and instead invading Ukraine and risking world war.

In his piece entitled “The Suns of August,” he wrote: “A century on from World War I, nobody wants the guns of August. Yet it must be asked if waiting years for the evasive conclusions of an official investigation into the fate of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is better than acting now on what we already know… Russia would veto any United Nations Security Council Resolution authorizing force for a limited mission to recover the bodies and the evidence. But Ukraine, on whose territory the debris and dead lie, would support it. The American, British, Dutch and Australian governments should set an ultimatum backed by the credible threat of force demanding unfettered access to the [crash] site.”

The most urgent warnings to the international working class are necessary. Columnists like Cohen and the intelligence agencies for which they speak threaten to unleash a war whose toll would be at least in the hundreds of millions. In a speech this week, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that he would defend Russia’s territorial integrity and had the weapons to do so. The Russian military arsenal, like the American, includes enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet several times over.

While the factual evidence has yet to emerge to allow investigators to determine what caused the crash, political evidence accumulates each day that the Western media, speaking for sections of the American and European ruling classes, is intent on provoking a war. What do people willing to risk such a war care for the lives of 298 people on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17?

Alex Lantier


Yes ,the Illegimate Kiev government is responsible ,NOT RUSSIA and definitely NOT the rebels in East Ukraine.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/24/pers-j24.html

 

Ninety percent of the News Media in the U.S. is now owned by six companies. I won't even bother looking at them. Besides having a low toleration for lies and hypocrisy, half the news is left out and it's always the same parts.. .so I feel why even bother, they're obviously controlled by the same people. I find RT gives the most complete news and doesn't try to impose their opinion on others with lies and spins. Instead they respect my right to form my own opinion by presenting all the news, not just the bits and pieces they want to present. I see that as mind control.

Moon of Alabama is good, Pepe Escobar of the Asia Times is excellent, and there are a few others as well. The Greek defensenet is also informative and its being fed news about three times a day, but it's in Greek.

Anyway read his whole article because he mentions the outside men who were in the Kiev airport that day. I read that they somehow disappeared as did the papers as well. Also the investigators are having a difficult time getting to the plane because Kiev won't stop the attacks. One has to wonder why?

 

there's lie from the start.
For example, you've said "by an air to air missile...most likely by the jet following it".
For your information, plane was hit from the front.

 

Where is your evidence that this is a Russian lie? Don't you have anything to support your statement?!

 

It was hit IN the front and it only suggests that it was rather air-to-air missile. BUK is detonated when the radar shows the proximity of a rocket to a target. It doesn't have an impact with a plane. Air-to-air missile is guided by a heat of the jet engine. But on such a speed it could deflect of the wing (where the engine is) and collide with the front and right side of the plane.

I would rather counter such an article with another objection. All the fragments found were obviously pierced with something. Whether it was holes because of missile fragments then it would have been BUK. For it has much more elements than the ATA missile. If it was an aviation gun then the holes would look differently and there will be traces of aviation ammo. For some reason we don't have that much of the information.

 

"most likely by the jet following it"

think

 

Let's think.

1) MH17 is flying at 10km and SU25 at 5 km. The radar has one big dot.
2) SU25 starts the attacking by increase of the height and engaging the plane following it on its course.
3) The rocket fired from the SU-25 an old but reliable chases the plane aiming at the temperature. It flies fast from behind and right.
4) Rocket gets to the plane and on a high speed it misses just a meter going not into the engine but to the strong wing of Boeing. SCRRRatch. The deflected from the wing it comes to the front of the liner. Impact. Detonation.

Now show me what you think about how such an impact would happen if it was BUK rocket which is not only much bigger but also which is detonated by a proximity to the liner (!). While ATA missile detonates at impact.

 

fantastic

I'd advice you to forget about SU-25.
It's impossible for it to get to these heights armed, and to lock target and launch missile, staying vertically.
Maybe in some sci-fi movei/book this is possible I don't know

 

? A web newspaper based in Hong Kong with Chinese capitals? Ask them if a Chinese satellite was on the zone ...

 

1) What is the range of standard ATA misiles installed at SU-25?
2) Is it really needed that the aim stays on the same height to be hit by a ATA rocket?
3) what prevents SU-25 to lock a target while increasing the altitude?

I don't see any fantastic here. But for one thing. I would really be surprised if I saw you thinking yourself. No problem. Ask those who think for you and return if you want to continue.

 

I quote the same

Ah! Just this? I could comment that a Buk can carry a shaped charge as well ... with the same totally "light" absence of accuracy.

The damages on what reminds of the plane are compatible with a lot of explosive devices. The "shaped charge effect" [if confirmed by independent observations ...] can be caused by the fragments of the explosion of a Buk without a great effort ...

 

do you mean, that Sine value can reach +-4 in a war times?

 

In my opinion the base question is "why" not "how" ... a SU-25 can carry air to air missiles to hit such a target [a slow civilian flight, if it flies enough low, could be hit using the guns!]. Why would have that SU-25 hit that civilian flight coming from West and clearly identified by Ukrainian air control?

I know your answer: to accuse Russians!

They didn't need this at Kiev ... all the "Free World" was already blaming Moscow for Crimea ....

 

Right after the plane was downed:
1) new sanctions (now srious) were really backed by EU countries
2) Kiev started a large scale attack in the east killing hundreds of people.

It goes out of question. WIthout the plane downed US and Kiev junta had no chance to get an alliance with EU in their war against Russia. That also explains the speed and the level of media hysteria who were the major killers under the circumstances. You think that in order to save billions of dollars these people would spare some couple of hundreds of europeans (major trade partners of Russia in Europe) and a hundred of malasians?

The profit is not to accuse. Accusations were done for a reason. And the objectives were fulfilled.
Do we have any problem with this?



Guess not. Why? Because it is propaganda of those bastards who shot down the plane. You see? Without a plane it was impossible. Now it is. So it is a business. Thousand russian kids for the price of a hundred european. Nice deal, isn't it?

 

even in this moment separatists are killing people in donetsk and lugansk.

 

We may as well blame the Easter bunny if Obama is going to keep saying we have pictures he won't release.

 

They kill only bad people sent by Kiev. Some of them are not so bad and flee to the Russian side, saving their consciousness and life... The rest of Kiev's attackers are very bad and deserve death. So-called Ukraine will loose the war.

 

Right. You mean the Moscow doctored ones.

There is no way to know what happened and who is responsible from the public vantage.

Each side only releases information that they want you to know.

I would not trust any government to be honest.