What is "Truth"?

Truth is independence from perspective - the abstract quality of objectivity.

God has the quality necessary for the discovery of truth: omnipotence. As someone viewing the world from their perspective, humans are unable to achieve such a state. There might always be some surprise around the corner, or your intellect may have been faulty (the intellect is just another sense like any other, and hence is fallible).

 

Truth is whatever those in control say it is.

 

reva: I am aware of the fact that you present yourself as being well versed in such things as quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement. However, IMHO, when it comes to things like the speed of light (wherein one could have the illusion of measuring distance) I find it a bit fanciful. Or, when it comes to measuring anything that cannot be seen with the naked eye, I find it equally fanciful. Quarks? Right hand spin or left hand spin... have you ever seen a quark spinning? It is to my understanding that some of those things said to be in the microcosm, pop in and pop out so fast and with such frequency, that it makes me wonder how something that cannot be seen or captured can be said to be spinning. Remembering that the scientific method is founded on assumptions, (meaning that something is believed to be true or real, but has not been proven), then what I am seeing in all such talk about such things is fanciful imaginings about fairy tale subject matter. Then you conclude in a statement of 'hope' "one day we may some how use...." Well, one day we may actually capture Russell's Tea Pot and be able to examine it. One day we may actually see the Lord returning in the skies above us. One other thing: it has also been stated that the scientific community KNOWS the weight of an electron. This is said to have been proven... proven through mathematics... however those mathematical calculations are also based on assumptions.. assuming at least one of the variables in the calculations.... such as size of an electron. There is no way to validate said calculations because no-one is capable of actually making such measurements.

 

That may be if one is considering the pratical nature. In fact I did a thread where I said that war defined reality. Because a war can create a nation.

reva

 

Hi brother IC! Its a bit early on your side of the world isn't it?

I think the best I can claim is that I understand the basics of some somewhat advanced subjects of science only well enough to understand the basic workings etc. That said I think it’s a very good thing to be skeptical about all theoretical claims of science. I wrote a thread on that as well. Still even though I am not trusting of sciences abality to describe some processes etc the speed of light and its relativistic effects like time dilation have been proved by experiment to be true. For example atomic clocks on very fast air craft and the space shuttle run slower than clocks on the ground. In one experiment after figuring in for the speed a small but constant deviation was in the figures. Then they plugged in the number where the clock on the ground was closer to the center of the earths mass! That fixed them completely! Mass also slows time!

I see nothing wrong with rejecting anything theoretical, that goes triple quadruple when there is no collaborating empirical evidence. God knows that science has ruined lives by placing too much importance in flawed theoretical science and misplaced if (most of the time) well meaning claims. Of course I know what my real book of truth tells me about those that seek knowledge at the expense of common sense eh?

Well before someone corrects me I gots to say that I took artistic license with my quarks! Lol quarks are located in the protons and neutrons in the nucleus of an atom, and they do spin but without going into a lot of detail I will say I used the example for ease of giving everyone a visual at the expense of accuracy.

You may be speaking of virtual particles, don’t worry one is in the universe the other is somewhere else (the quantum foam) and in quantum it gets much, much weirder than that! Really ’spin’ is only a way to describe an quantum process that gives rise to another process creating the magnetic field in the electron.

I think you have a very healthy way to look at the world. I do not put too much stock in the highly theoretical world of quantum physics or even some aspects of evo. As for QFT, I am lost on anything but the basics. Its far too complicated for my 70>80s fried brain to comprehend, and I would rather spend time to learn about God than a difficult subject!

Take care and God bless you IC. You have inspired me and sometimes challenged me to learn more about different ways to understand scripture, which helped me in my relationship with God, not to mention your mentoring on everything from english 101 to dealing with people~ thanks!

reva

 

IC I will finish up and comment on the latter part of your reply. From what I see I may have to mentor you on the nature of the scientific method* (lol) and how we can determine to a very high degree of truth how things work even if we can not see them ! I can't believe it I might have to defend science!

*You seem to know the SM (lol it is torture) fairly well. Lets see… um’ I figure you marks will Bee about a B+ on that paper…

reva

 

I agree, this is true and I wish all religious fanatics could see that they do not know the 100% truth.... I think the world would be a better place

 

I wish I had the 'understanding' that others seem to possess with such things as we have spoken about in this latest exchange. I further wish that I could have been of more assistance, as I can only give what I have and that is incomplete to say the least. I had to chuckle about the "dealing with people" comment. On that subject, it is all about observation and analysis. I, fortunately had the opportunity to work in one of those 'controlled environments' with plenty of random 'subjects' to observe (Prison setting). A wide variety of specimens. You have a blessed day also Brother.

 

Will be waiting patiently.

 

Now has anybody else given any further consideration to the OP? It would sure be nice for someone to let us all know what is 'truth'?

 

I agree that the Lord is the truth. To understand and see it one is to be talented (chosen). It is not for everybody to see it. We are chosen to see it and if a person is not that way it is no use to argue with him. It is just what is given or not given. That is why most arguments with scientific atheists are nonproductive. This is my view. I am not proud I am just happy to be chosen. And I try to be that way and keep my religion in every way.

 

Has anyone figured out what 'truth' is yet?

 

In my opinion, I think you need to write a book on this subject. Your insight is IMHO really keen. Thanks for your input.

 

Why would the Lord give truth to some but not others?

 

IMHO, 'truth' was given to everyone, however some people have (through egocentric thinking) decided to pervert 'truth' with ideologies that has converted 'truth' to something that is not accurate. Those people have in a sense diluted the 'truth'. 'truth' is a product of that garden of the mind, and some people are not good caretakers of that garden and subsequently allow weeds to grow in that garden in such quantity that 'truth' gets strangled and cross bred with those weeds; often to such a degree that 'truth' is no longer distinguishable from the other products in the garden.

 

I'm still waiting reva... hope to hear from you soon.

 

Am I now going to be required, by the lack of showing on this thread, to assume that all the participants of this thread have given up on their search for 'truth'? It is definitely beginning to appear that way.

 

Jesus is the truth

"no one comes to the Father except through Me"

"I am the Way..."

"If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"

etc...

But here's the thing: most people IGNORE Jesus... I speak of Christians ignoring him because they ignore HIS Church (the Roman Catholic Church that he founded)



_____________

 

What is "truth"? Well, one blogger once said...

" I, as an individual, am the determiner of 'truth' with regard to what I will accept as true."

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So, are non-Catholic Christians... "real" Christians?

 

Only one problem with what you stated... That is the thing about the Roman Catholic Church.... The 'Bible' also states "no man cometh unto the Father except by me." Not by some man wearing a robe and hat. That man with the hat and robe is no different than any other man on the streets. Also, that man in the robe and under that hat can no more get somebody into heaven than the next guy. Otherwise, a good shot.

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Well, did you ever show PROOF that the blogger you speak about was in error? I bet you didn't.

 

Well, people are made different as clay pots for high purpose and for low purpose so the truth is given by the Lord but iss not expected to be understood by everybody. Only by the chosen ones, by the believers. Why? There was the answer that the reasoning of the Lord and of people are different. Nobody is expected to understand the Lord with human logic. To put it briefly it is not for the clay pot to ask the pot Maker why He made it for this or for that purpose. That is why some explanations in the Gospel are not complete. They are beyond human understanding. People will never be able to understand the Kingdom of the Lord in detail. They are not expected to so far. If you are a believer (chosen) you grasp this idea.

 

There is an old saying that pretty much everyone accepts relating to truth.

"Everyone has their own truth."

Accordingly the definition of truth must work with that.

What I come up with is that truth relates to the ultimate meaning of information to an individual.

 

And religions are as different as clay pots. Calling one pot 'true' while denying the truth potential of all the others is idiotic. It's like standing in a forest and claiming the tree next to you is the only 'real' tree.

 

Yes! Doing that is idiotic because a "truth potential " is not "truth".

 

The "truth" is what I say it is. And that goes for everyone else too.