When It Comes to Israel, The Standards of Warfare are Different

You're deflecting again. Where did I indicate that a person(s) was raped and murdered. I was discussing the use of the tunnels, to attack Israelis by suicide bombers and the attacks on Israeli soldiers by use of the tunnels. So you claim that the multiple rapes and murders of Jews or Christian women, taking place in places like Iraq, Syria and yes Israel by invading terrorists is only a crime punishable by a court of law and not on the spot summary execution?

 

Hmm...., They might try. The Iron Dome is strictly a defense against the rockets Hamas is sending into Israel. What right would Hamas have to destroy a defensive weapon when they are sending rockets to attack Israel? What is and where is the logic in your question?

 

they should of waited until the cease fire ended or not enter the cease fire until they were done bombing.. common sense

 

Remind me in which sovereign country them terror tunnels are dug in... Doh...

 

I wasn't being specific about the Iron Dome, I meant in general. Or how about this; if Hamas had the chance to destroy a bunch of drones that was carrying missiles, would that be a violation of a ceasefire?

 

Only in defense, if drones had fired upon them first violating the cease fire agreement. However, that has not been the case. As it is Hamas fired 5 rockets into Israel today violating their own cease fire agreement.

 

they could of destroyed the tunnels on their side, sending bombs to the other side was the issue (only because of the cease fire, once that was over, fire away)

neither side should agree to a cease fire unless they plan to... get this.... cease firing

.

 

But what's the difference? Both have the potential to be used for war, and both will be used. There is no difference.

 

One can presume that like Hamas your word in meaningless. Words like cease fire, are used to rearm, smuggle more rockets into Gaza, or dig tunnels further into Israel with the murder of women and children in mind. Each cease fire broken by Hamas makes it more reasonable for Israel to destroy them.

 

Let me retort to all that Jazz with a few words of wisdom.
<Gaza is part of Israel>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Palestine and Palestinian is written this way...

 

And when have I indulged in this "name calling"? Examples please...I've been on this forum long enough to recognise a Hasbara apparatchik when I see one.

 

Deflecting again?? What are you talking about? This genocide was started over a murder and rape.

Yes I believe a person should be found guilty. He said she said has killed many innocent people over the years. The fact that you don't feel that way tells me a lot about your mentality. But you are the good guy's

 

Thank you for clearing that up!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Basic Brainwashing 101
Yes I am aware of the basic brainwashing techniques

 

So you claim that the three kidnapping of three Israeli boys that were murdered and found in Gaza, or the Palestinian boy killed in Gaza that was supposedly raped and then burned to death are "he said, she said"? Logically. now why would Israeli's sneak into Gaza to kill a homosexual Palestinian when HAMAS would more than likely kill a homosexual for religious reasons do it themselves? The killing sounds definitely more like HAMAS would do rather than Israelis. You also omitted that the perpetrators should be tried and if found guilty then the decision be carried out. Whatever decision that might be.
HAMAS began the bombardment of Israel with thousands of rockets on the pretext that Israelis' killed that boy without an investigation. Where is the reasoning in that?

 

Sure... That is not the story that was told during the breaking news flash... The story you are telling is the spin that came after the offensive.

 

The reason that Israel acts like NO OTHER nation on the planet a Law unto itself ,is because US imperialisms military Base called Israel ,is what is called Foreign Policy US Imperialism Made in the USA!

Without US support Israel would last about a Nano second !

Why do they do to the Palestinian Arab people ,the True Peoples of the Middle East ,Historic ,not manufactured Identity ,Zionist ,as HIMMLER did to the Jews in the Holocaust ,They share the Same CLASS IDENTITY ,middle class trash ,Mobilised by Imperialism .

NAZI or Zionist SAME CLASS BASE !

 

WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE
First some introductions:

1) What is "The People of Israel" ?

The People of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
They have their own particular, essential nature.
The Torah is the source of their essential nature.
Without Torah and Faith there is no People of Israel.
Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the People of Israel.
The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine Service.
Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.
2) What is Zionism?

Zionism is a relatively new thing.
It has only existed for a century.
Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.
Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.
The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel
http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/opposition.cfm

 

The Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.

It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.

The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.

They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.

The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.

The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.

That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.

Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.

We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.

1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.

2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.

3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.

However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their Faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.

Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.

Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force, fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.

Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist State will cease to exist.

It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.

Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. The truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one is three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.

Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL

 

Look at that, this orthodox Jew must be an anti Semitic. Because when I say those same thing's that is what they call me

 

So my words are worthless? And yet your words do nothing to explain why mine are worthless, they just pointlessly insult.

 

Besides the Hamas/Hezbolah element, whom have an avowed directive of no compromise period, there is only the moderate Palestinian population who must act to resolve the situation.

IF the Moderate Palestinian Party (as yet not well defined) ever regains political control of Gaza, then the next immediate problem to resolve is the zone of crossing between Gaza and the West Bank, which has been a major logistical nightmare.

IF that zone can become like a UN regulated, patroled zone (a 3rd party neutral) regulated area, that allows a 2 state solution and thus traffic to flow relatively free between Gaza and West Bank and also Northern and Southern Israel, then another major element of contention is eliminated.

IF, that traffic jam is eliminated, there will be more opportunity to free the mediterranian sea zone off the coast of Gaza to allow more commercial fishing, and trade. If the rebuilt new State of Palestine can then demonstrate some kind of security and renounce the Hamas charter, the opportunity for further commercial development is possible, and Gaza and the West Bank may be able to cash in on international tourism the same way the State of Israel does.


All of this a hypothetical proposal from SkullKrusher, the one man left in the world, who still believes it is possible for intelligent human beings to logically arrive at solutions that allow for win/win rather than death to all.

 

The Palestinians don't want a two state solution. They want only one state, and they want it on the ashes of Israel.

 

The Israelis don't want a two state solution. They want only one state, and they want it on the ashes of Palestine. Blanket statements are what causes people to fight each other, instead of realizing how close they actually are to each other.

 

You do understand that all of your talking points come from neo Nazis and holocaust deniers, don't you?

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Turnabout has no substance to me. This is a bunch of nonsense.