Cons, how do you mediate conflicts between capitalism beliefs and christian faith?

Capitalists often act in un Christian ways. As a Christian, I am not obliged to hold them to my beliefs, as progs will so often point out with issues like homosexuality marriage. The issue really is, how do I, as a Human being, deal with the way capitalists treat others. The answer is easy, consider the alternatives, and recoil in horror.

 

I don't think the Bible is against capitalism, but it is against greed. It also encourages charity.

And while capitalism isn't really meant to be for greed, greedy, money hungry people have usurped it.

What i don't understand is, according to the parable of the rich man, you have to give up EVERYTHING and live as a pauper. There's claims that you get it back ten fold in heaven, but why would that happen when in heaven gems, jewels, cash, and things like that would be absolutely useless to a purely spiritual being that has left the body.

So, this is something that's kind of hard for me to grasp.

The explanation i tend to hear the msot is because that wealth is a distraction from serving god.

But then, this too is problematic for me, because I don't understand why we have to serve god twenty four hours a day. Why can't we have some stuff of our own? Why must our stuff be taken away from us?

To me, this is all crap and one of my big turn offs of religion.

 

I'm a conservative and an atheist so it isn't a problem. But, how do communist reconcile their beliefs with any sense of self-respect?

 

Not sure why it's an issue.

That's really quite easy to answer. On a societal level as a system which allows the society to function properly, the only long-term viable economic system is capitalism.

As far as an individual is concerned, the individual who is a Christian is going to follow his Christian beliefs while within the capitalist model. Capitalism is, in fact, more appropriate to a Christian lifestyle. Whereas socialism FORCES people to give their money whether they want to or not... capitalism allows for CHARITY, which is what Jesus calls for. To provide for those who are less fortunate than you WILLFULLY... not having to be forced to do so by other people.

And within a capitalist system the individual Christian would have more resources to willfully be charitable.

 

Hmm, seems to be a lot of this Conservatives are deeply religious, bible thumpers and Liberals are non-religious atheist going around.

 

You misunderstood the point of the story of the rich man. It's not that Christians have to give everything they have away and live poor... it's also not that you can't have nice things. The point of the story is that you must love God more than anything else.

The rich man went up to Jesus and asked him, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" In other words, what do I have to do to get to heaven?

Jesus answered and said, "... if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." And the rich young man replied, "Which ones?"

(Jesus was not stupid, Jesus knew what the young man's problem was and if you'll notice in the scripture, Jesus quotes SOME of the commandments... but the commandments he quotes to the young man were all about loving his neighbor. They were part two of the 2 great commandments "You shall love your neighbor as I have loved you." But if you notice Jesus doesn't address the first commandment, "Love God above all else". Jesus knew the young man loved his neighbor but he also knew the rich young man loved his riches more than he loved God)

Jesus said, "You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, you shall honor your father and your mother and you shall love your neighbor as yourself".

The young man, happy with himself because he knew he had done all these things, said "All these things I've kept from my youth, what do I still lack?"

Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect go, sell what you have and give to the poor and come follow me and you shall have treasure in heaven."

But the young man was sad and could not do these things because he loved his riches more than he loved God. Jesus pointed out it's hard for a rich man to sacrifice all of the nice things he has because he comes to covet them and love them more than he loves God. Not every rich man, but it's a definite evil rich people should watch out for. But Jesus told everyone, if you'll do what I say your reward will be far greater than any material wealth this world can offer.

 

So exactly what is God's according to the Bible?

 

And what historical evidence do you have to justify your statement?

 

That every communist society ever formed has either failed or been forced to move closer to a capitalist structure to continue to function.

Furthermore, unlike communism or socialism, capitalism is not a human construct. Capitalism is simply the observation of how free and fair markets work.

 

If it is not, it should be. According to the bible we are all children of God. God created the earth to hold his children and give them the means to find nourishment. In other words, the earth is a gift from God to all his children. When you make the earth into private property, such as required under capitalism, then the land will all be claimed, and the youth will be excluded from Gods generous gift. So, God created the earth for his children to freely use, but capitalism makes Gods gift into the property of a few, and allows them to charge those who come later a fee to use what God gave to all his children.

As a further example, imagine that there is a free music concert in the local park, with ample free seating provided for all who might come. Suppose that the first to arrive claim all the seats as their property, and start charging all those who come after them a fee (rent) in order have a seat and enjoy the concert. Do you think it is fair that simply because these individuals got to the free concert first, that they claim all the chairs, and start charging everyone else a fee for what was intended to be a free concert for all to enjoy? Well, that is what capitalism does with the earth. Capitalism gives those who happened to be born first an excuse to take all of gods free gifts for themselves, and exclude all those who happen to be born a little later from what God intended to be a free gift, for all his children to share and enjoy.

 

I agree.
"Matthew 25:14-30New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Bags of Gold

14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

 

Jesus used a lot of capitalist parables. Nothing about honest capitalism is incompatible with Christianity.

 

What makes you think all "cons" are Christians?

Stereotype much?

There are Jews and atheists and Muslims and others who are conservatives.

 

That's easy. The New Testament and capitalism are incongruous without a heap of rationalization.

 

What exactly does a line of scripture advocating Rome leave the Holy Land have anything to do with this?

 

How do most Christians deal with contradictions of their faith by modernity? They ignore what their faith says.

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to make the argument that the Bible encourages socialism. Because that one's been debunked many times over. Jesus preached charity - which most Christians practice more freely than any other group. He did not preach theft. In fact, if you'll revisit the Ten Commandments, I believe you'll find something in there about stealing.

Uh.... what?

 

Great idea. Someone should try that some day. None of it happening in capitalism.

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What about voluntary socialism?

If people stop coveting their neighbor's stuff, capitalism falls apart.

 

I see no contradiction between REAL Christianity and REAL conservatism.
I think the problem is that there are too many lies told about BOTH.

 

Plese explain to me where you got that idea? Understand this if you can under Christianity I am responsible for but two things, the first is how I deal with my fellow man and how I deal with the lord my God. I am to deal fairly and honestly with my fellow man and to serve as a watchmen to warn him if his current path appears to lead toward hell, and please note that is as watchman, not judge, jury, or executioner. I deal with my God with unconditional love.

 

Im not religious, so its pretty easy.

 

That qualifies as an opinion not as evidence, but that's OK. Now tell me where Capitalism in its pure form has worked. And while you are at it you might define just what is meant by " free and fair"
My guess would be that in the actual functioning of markets these are significantly contradictory.

Seems to me that while most Communist systems eventually need to implement some aspects of Capatilist markets and the opposite is also true that Capitalist systems eventually have to adopt some elements of a Communist system.

 

Luke 14:33. Plain as day.

 

I have been told that its against the rules to call a post stupid. Let's just say your post is uninformed in the extreme.

 

Cons, how do you mediate conflicts between capitalism beliefs and Christian faith?

Simple - they just redefine Christianity. THEIR Jesus and his followers were all investment bankers and oil company CEOs.