A basic question- Why would I love and worship a "God" who...

You infer such knowledge by stating things that only someone that knew the mind of God could know.

You say that killed babies are going to heaven. If you do not know the mind of God (God's intentions towards these babies) then how do you know what will happen to them ?

Often you infer that someone is going to hell. How do you know (assuming hell even exists) who God is going to put without knowing the mind of God ?

 

Because it is written in the bible. I have no need to know the mind of God when I can read his words.

Take hell for example. The bible says that only through Christ can we go to heaven and since you have not given your life over to him I can infer that you are going to hell. I do not need to know the mind of God to understand that.

 

If you do not know the mind of God, then how do you know what is part of God's plan and what is not ?

What is seemingly difficult is for you to back up your claim.

How do you know for a fact that everything is part of Gods plan ?

If you do not know this for a fact, then you are speaking for God/ putting words in God's mouth.

 

You do not know that the Bible is God's word ? I have already addressed this.

Just because some goat herder or self proclaimed prophet wrote some holy book 1000's of years ago, does not mean those words come from God.

You can believe that if you wish, but "faith" is not proof that something is true.

There-fore you do not know for sure what God's words are.

Claiming you know for sure what God's words are, when clearly you do not, is putting words in God's mouth.

 

Because everything that happens is part of gods plan. Kind of comes with being omnipotent.

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Then why even bother discussing anything? Just show up in a thread and say God is not real and leave so the rest of us can discuss it.

 

You've made an outlandish claim about the book of Romans. The burden of proof falls to you. You need to show that these verses about "all people ignorant of Jesus gaining Heaven by default" actually exist.

No, you're not my Sunday school teacher. In addition to being arrogant and obnoxious and dishonest, you make up crap about the Bible to make it seem inclusive.

Here. Let me use your tactic: "The bible is fantasy BS. Go read the bible and educate yourself."

See how obnoxious that is?

 

You assume I actually care what you think.

I don't. I am debating with like 5 other atheists so I don't need another one. Don't believe me if you want.

 

Let me translate for you all, using Spookyspeak: "You are right, Kamalayka, I can't actually back up my wild claims that I make up as I go, but I sure as hell can insult you for asking me that question that I can't answer!! If I can't dazzle them will brilliance, I will baffle them with bull****!!"

 

Debating? You call this debating? You're making idiotic claims, and when you're called out on it, you tell me to "read the Bible."

You claimed: Everyone who doesn't know Jesus is automatically saved.

Show me one verse--ONE verse--from anywhere in the New Testament suggesting this bizarre claim. If you can't, I'll accept that as an admission of deception/"lying for Jesus" on your part.

 

Hopefully you are wise enough to see that god's plan is incredibly UNFAIR.

 

Oh thank god!! Now I don't have to prostitute my mind by believing in insane unscientific stuff like talking snakes to be "saved"!! I guess by just being a (moral) atheist I can be saved!! But ouch, John 14:6 says the only way to the father is by believing in the magic invisible slavery-approving zombie from Nazareth, so I'm really really confused right now.

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Hey, he's just trying to be like JESUS (who made idiotic claims such as "I am the truth and the way and the life!!!"), so give him a break.

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He will just come back with an INSULT, so you can of course take that as tacit admission that you are right and he is wrong. See, I'm starting to develop supernatural psychic powers, so I magically know what he's going to say next.

 

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)

Yawn, anything else?

 

Circular reasoning much ? "Everything that happens is part of God's plan, because it is part of God's plan"

1) How do you know that God is omnipotent ?

2) Even if God is omnipotent it does not follow (non sequitur) that God plans everything.

You are living in fallacyland.

I never once implied God is not real and this came up before. Yet another disingenuous and lame bait and switch attempt.

Do you have no substance behind your belief ? Something other than fallacy and deceit ?

The discussion is about is your complete lack of substantiation for your "defacto claims" in relation to characteristics about God. Not about whether or not God exists.

 

Do you think anything happens that God does not approve of. You believe he is sitting in heaven going, "well I wish that would have worked out differently, I will have to change my plans now". I sure hope he gets lucky because he has that whole second coming thing he has to bring.

Lol

 

You can speculate all you like about what God does or does not do. Speculation and fact are not the same.

The truth is that you have no idea what God's powers are and to what degree God engages in the affairs of humans.

What is falsehood and delusional abject nonsense are claims that someone does know things about God for a fact.

 

Paul had some interesting ideas but, unfortunately, he does not know much about Jesus.

Paul never met Jesus and his writings tell us almost nothing about the life of Jesus. Paul does not become a christian until years after the death of Jesus.

Paul is not part of the Church of Jerusalem (founded by the disciples after the death of Jesus) an the few times Paul does associate with the disciples they have differences.

James - Brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Church - calls people who follow Pauline (Salvation by Faith Alone) doctrine "Foolish" James 2

For one who speaks so arrogantly about God and the Bible, you sure do not seem to have a good understanding of the the Book.

 

Of course I do, the bible gives many examples of those powers. Have you ever even opened the book up. Everything I have said is clearly written in the bible.

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Not sure what Paul knowing Jesus has to do with my point.

In fact it has nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

 

So God approves of murder, rape, child abuse, torture, etc.???

 

History is a witness most wars, even now, are religions driven. Nations, people do not fight but their Gods.

 

You were quoting from Paul.

Just because people living 4000 years ago had stories about God's and Goddesses, does not make those stories true.

As stated in my previous post:

The truth is that you can not be certain what God's powers are and to what degree God engages in the affairs of humans.

What is abject falsehood and delusional abject nonsense are your claims that you know for a fact that biblical stories about God are a true representation of God.

 

And what does Paul have to say about the ultimate fate of people who are judged according to the Law, rather than saved through faith in Jesus? And why does Romans 10:13-15 indicate that hearing about Jesus is necessary for salvation?