The Real Reason Lucifer Rebelled FACT: Word has it that the next most powerful being next to God is Lucifer. FACT: God is said to have created Lucifer. FACT: God is said to be all knowing. FACT: As the story goes, Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God and a big war in heaven broke out. The all knowing God had to have seen this rebellion coming. God caused the war in heaven. FACT: As the story goes, Lucifer's motivation for rebelling was brought on by God ordering him to bow to Adam. This doesn't make sense. Didn't the all knowing God know that Lucifer was a megalomaniac like him? God should have known that this would have rubbed Lucifer who by the way, Lucifer was God's favorite angel, the wrong way? Perhaps Lucifer rebelled for honorable reasons? Let's look at the facts. Lucifer is nearly as intelligent and as powerful as God his creator. Was Lucifer's ego greater than his intellect? Not likely but pride, jealousy and ego are the reasons given for Lucifer's tiff with God but this makes no sense. What did Lucifer have to envy? Adam was mortal and he and Eve were thought slaves to God. The were nothing more than God's pets. God knew that and so did Lucifer, after all Lucifer is the next closest thing to God. Perhaps knowing the plight of humankind and knowing all the suffering humans would endure Lucifer said, "Enough is enough!" and decided to do something about it. Perhaps Lucifer was an animal lover and saw a future of animals suffering and dying in God's system of predator and prey and kill or be killed model? Animals did nothing wrong yet God saw fit to give them the same biting maladies that he had planned to inflict upon humans for being "tricked" by a talking snake? If you think about it logically it pretty much looks like Lucifer and his angels are not only good guys but are heroic figures. They were outnumbered and outgunned yet they fought the good fight. This is a bit like soldiers from the Northern states sacrificing their lives to free people that they didn't even know and by the way, the slave owner used the Bible to justify slavery and all its cruelty and injustice. Lucifer and his legions were even more courageous than the Union soldiers because they had their immortality to lose and their chances of victory were slim and none. As the story goes, humans will be tortured in hell or destroyed for not believing in Jesus, yet Lucifer and 1/3 of all the angels set out to kill God and Lucifer and his angels were assigned the task of punishing the wicked and non believers in hell for all eternity. As the story goes God loves his children; but clearly he plays favorites. He gave all his angels blissful lives unearned while setting the bar unreasonably high for his other children and punishes ALL all of them for a mistake by two people, Adam and Eve and BTW, Eve was framed. Maybe, just maybe, Lucifer is the good guy?
Your crazy man! Before Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of both good and evil, there was no murder, sickness, pain, sorrow, they walked with God in the garden. After gaining knowledge of evil, man became as such. And the former way or life, died. Just as God told them it would. Your acting as if you know what our Fathers kingdom is and what it pertains. You have no idea, your merely speculating. Pro 10:31-The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out. definition of Froward: Perverse, that is, turning from, with aversion or reluctance; not willing to yield or comply with what is required; unyielding; ungovernable; refractory; disobedient; peevish; as a froward child. They are a very froward generation, children in whom is no fair. Deut. 32. Psa 34:13-Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. Psa 109:2-For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. Psa 52:2-Thy tongue deviseth mischiefs; like a sharp razor, working deceitfully. Psa 12:3-The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
Lucifer didn't exist until an early church father made him up. How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! Isaiah 14 - in Hebrew. Nothing about Lucifer. The 'day-star' was a braggart Babylonian monarch who met a bad end. Neither is there a Christian 'Satan' in the OT. The Jewish belief is that Ha Satan 'works' at Jahweh's command. His task is to test mens faith - not to lead them astray. It's only when Christianity arrives that Satan is the enemy of God. Given the Jewish belief, Jesus supposed temptation makes sense. He was tested, and passed the test. Though how anyone could know what happened is beyond belief.
If that's how you want to take it. Before the knowledge of evil, man did not know how to kill. The thought never came to mind, it was impossible. So yes, some knowledge is nothing but evil. Which is why we were told: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12
And your point is? If a child is doing something wrong, the child is punished. If the child is not punished, the child continues to do wrong. So under your mind set, when a child does something wrong, it is the parents fault, and the child should not be punished. What kind of society would that lead to?
1) Why would I punish my child's dog for something my child did? 2) Why would I punish my unborn grandchild for what my child did? 3) Why would I punish my child for something that they didn't know was wrong? (If Adam and Evil had no knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, then they didn't know that eating it was evil, or even that disobeying God was evil). 4) Why would I punish my child for doing something for the express purpose of trying to become more like me? 5) Why would I punish my child for seeking knowledge?
That's a tricky one.....if there was "no evil in the world" UNTIL Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.... then they had no way of knowing that eating the Fruit was an "evil act"....how could they? "God told them not to do it".....yes, but if Adam and Eve didn't know that disobeying God was an "evil thing to do" (which they couldn't know BEFORE they ate the Fruit).... then they acted without malice or evil in eating the Fruit...in fact, they were innocents....and thus can't be blamed.
Deuteronomy 24:16 says “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin” and that “The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” We are all responsible for our own mistakes/sin. The point is parents can cause suffering on their kids, sometimes affecting future generations. Neglect, abuse, alcoholism ect... the list is pretty long. Seeking knowledge isn't wrong. Crossing a street isn't bad in itself...a toddler running out in traffic can be deadly.
And elsewhere the Bible contradicts this consistently and constantly. You are talking about natural consequences. I'm talking about a deliberate curse. Conflating them is intellectually dishonest. There is an external threat: cars. In the Adam and Eve story, there were no external threats except God and the threats created by God afterwards. It would be like constructing a road through the middle of my child's playground, driving all of the cars myself without any need to do so, and then punishing him with death if he decided to try to cross a street that he didn't know was dangerous, even though it was only dangerous because of me in the first place.
In addition to this, Lucifer was an angel. Angels in the bible have no free will. Therefore, Lucifer was only doing what he was made to do.
It was the first lesson for mankind that disobedience against God has consequence's. You just have a huge problem with God...at least the real God.
Then why punish their descendants (which you quoted the Bible as saying was a no-no)? Why punish, literally, the rest of the earth? Why punish animals? I'm of the same opinion as Thomas Paine. If God exists and He is as described in the Bible, then he is completely indistinguishable from a demon. I've know toddlers with stronger moral compasses.
This alone would give a reasonable person pause to reconsider the dogmatic interpretations served so readily by those seeking to earn a living at being a preacher or other profitable type christian! One must willfully and continually close their eyes in order to continue to accept this mythology as fact.
First of the Bible and the other gospels are fairy tales so I am looking at the whole thing as literature and fable. You actually think that some wacky sky god wrote the Bible and you are calling me crazy? If that God does exist he/she/it is pure evil. This Bible God is so evil that he condemns people to hell even before he created the earth. You worship this monster and you call me crazy. 2 Th.2:11-12 "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." 2 Tim.1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation." Your evil Bible God destined people to hell even before he made them. Before the talking snake persuaded Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge they were thought slaves and before they ate from the tree of knowledge they did not know right from wrong. What a nasty evil trick God and his buddy Satan pulled on them. Then if that was not evil enough, Bible God punished everybody for a mistake two people made and you call me crazy. You worship this evil God and you call me crazy.
The Dead Sea scrolls mentions a war in heaven as does the Book of Mormon. Millions of people don't think Joseph Smith was the con artist he actually was. We almost had a president that believes in the BS. No one who wrote about Jesus had ever met him, the first writings weren't until several decades after his death. Also about 400 years A.D. there were a group of men who decided which books would be put in the bible as divine word of God, by voting on it it. Many manuscripts were completely left out of the bible all together. One of the most absurd things I have heard many Christians say to that is, that the people who knew Jesus during his life told oral stories from generation to generation. John wrote Revelations and Jesus, if he actually existed, died before John was born. Jesus comes of like a real con man in the Bible but the real con men were the people who wrote and compiled the buy bull. There was a lot of subterfuge regarding the BuyBull and its creators. http://www.rense.com/general66/hide.htm
I remember my Greek mythology here...didn't Cronus and Zues get into a big fight? Gods fighting was part of the mythology of a lot of religions back then...this is just a continuation IMHO.
Yep, Cronus and Zeus fought. And before them Cronus and Uranus. Zeus feared that mankind would be come gods and challenge his rule, thus he kept them down, which also has parallels with the "they have become like us, knowing good from evil" story of Genesis.
Before the knowledge. Only Adam and Eve existed. No one to kill. Think man, think. Also, you called someone else crazy? The flat earth believer. Too funny. - - - Updated - - - According to the bible, man will always do wrong. They are sinful. God knows this, knew this before the creation. So he is punishing man for something he knew he was going to do before he created man. Why?
Utter nonsense. God told Isaiah to take up this parable against the king of Babylon" A mortal pagan king. As a result of his egotistical self-deification, the pagan monarch eventually would experience both the collapse of his kingdom and the loss of his lifean ignominious end. When the ruler finally descends into his eternal grave, he is denominated as a man (vs. 16) who would die in disrepute and whose body would be buried, not in a kings sarcophagus, but in pits reserved for the downtrodden masses (vss. 19-20). Worms would eat his body, and hedgehogs would trample his grave. Isaiah 14
Before the Alien(americans of the sky) invasion of Asia(our sky land) the God was the supreme being and nothing, nothing would be called Lucifer or demon opposite in front of His indisputable personality. But he grew old and understood the Alien were coming, his total defeat and made concessions to his world by creating demons or open and healthy opposites, and Lucifer was his best. After the Alien invasion, all was destroyed and their studies talk about a terrible beast, a black dog bigger than a mountain with a puma head that doesnt create, doesnt have a real intellect but in the crazy phase of his power can destroy and convince you totally, can create bio-electric charges snake-like endlessly. But this was the old God, the new Goth is as mindless as the old one and doesnt doubt in Aliens that are ready to kill the beast once again.
The Dead Sea Scrolls war in heaven is an accumulation of Jewish scriptures which are LATER used by John to form Revelations (though John adds Jesus to the events. So we have 1. Jewish Scriptures followed by 2. Dead Sea Scrolls version of those scriptures with other stuff added followed by 3. John's version with Jesus added. . Jesus was only a con man if you accept the Christians interpretation and writing of the Gospels that he was divine. IMO he was a Jewish religious teacher who saw the corrupt 'clergy' of his day and their misuse of scripture, and denounced them. I have no doubt he existed. Through 500 years he is denounced by the Jews. Reference to Jesus were deleted from the Babylonian Talmud by Christian censors. These deletions were collected and compiled. One is '. . From the stories about Jesus in the Babylonian Talmud, it is evident that he was regarded as a rabbinical student who had strayed into evil ways: "May we produce no son or pupil who disgraces himself like Jesus the Nazarene
